Last Night's Debate.......

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Originally Posted by Blackstone

That still doesn't answer my questions. If you believe flood gates are going to open for new jobs just because the tax rate is reduced to 25% from the 28% Obama has proposed, you are kidding yourself. When the Bush era tax reductions went into effect, they were supposed to stimulate job growth. Businesses were going to create more jobs and hire more people. It didn't happen, at least not in this country.

If it works in this case, there will still be a considerable time lapse between when the tax cuts take effect and when new jobs will be created. Where is the revenue going to come from in the meantime? That is why I want to know what tax credits he plans to eliminate. Will it be people like me paying more taxes to make up the shortfall? If so, what happens to my standard of living with less disposable income?

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You have selective memory about the Bush years. The first 7 years were pretty damn good. The media was going crazy and giving him hell if unemployment got near 5%. The economy was strong... It didn't crash till his last year... Thanks in large part to the folks like Barney Frank.

If you are that antsy for more specifics on Romney's plan... go on his website... it's laid out there... You can take your time and read it thoroughly.

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Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy

Romney proposed a "bucket" of $X (He said the X to be determined). Then everyone gets to deduct up to $X. They get to choose what to put in their bucket: mortgage interest, local taxes, state taxes, etc., but cannot exceed the $X.

He indicated that higher income individuals might have a smaller bucket than the lower income individuals. Perhaps the reasoning there is if you're paying $50,000 in mortgage interest each year, you really don't need more tax relief?

Then one only needs to establish what will be allowed in the "bucket" of deductibles. That will be among the kinds of things that Pres and Congress have to hammer out intelligently.

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I heard that, but I would like to know what the "X" is. How much for individuals, and how much for couples? I know he through out $25K and $50k as examples, but I think his original number before the debate was significantly lower. I guess I just don't trust the Gov. to set the limits in my favor if they start off arbitrary and vague.

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Originally Posted by Blackstone

That still doesn't answer my questions. If you believe flood gates are going to open for new jobs just because the tax rate is reduced to 25% from the 28% Obama has proposed, you are kidding yourself. When the Bush era tax reductions went into effect, they were supposed to stimulate job growth. Businesses were going to create more jobs and hire more people. It didn't happen, at least not in this country.

If it works in this case, there will still be a considerable time lapse between when the tax cuts take effect and when new jobs will be created. Where is the revenue going to come from in the meantime? That is why I want to know what tax credits he plans to eliminate. Will it be people like me paying more taxes to make up the shortfall? If so, what happens to my standard of living with less disposable income?

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I'm not an economist but I believe that the main spur to job creation if Romney gets elected will be the change in perception. Currently, most business owners I know feel that the administration is hostile to business, creating an uncertainty that makes capital investment seem very risky. I believe that the republicans will be viewed as pro-business and will give many business owners the confidence to expand.

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Originally Posted by Blackstone

I heard that, but I would like to know what the "X" is. How much for individuals, and how much for couples? I know he through out $25K and $50k as examples, but I think his original number before the debate was significantly lower. I guess I just don't trust the Gov. to set the limits in my favor if they start off arbitrary and vague.

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So, if you don't trust him, vote for the other guy... he's really doing a great job.

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Originally Posted by huntinman

You have selective memory about the Bush years. The first 7 years were pretty damn good. The media was going crazy and giving him hell if unemployment got near 5%. The economy was strong... It didn't crash till his last year... Thanks in large part to the folks like Barney Frank.

If you are that antsy for more specifics on Romney's plan... go on his website... it's laid out there... You can take your time and read it thoroughly.

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Maybe the 1st 7 years were good where you were, but not where I was. I saw things starting to fall apart in 2004. Depending on where you were, unemployment had started to rise, and the housing market began to crash. I know because I moved to avoid losing my job, and I had a heck of a time selling my house.

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Originally Posted by Blackstone

Maybe the 1st 7 years were good where you were, but not where I was. I saw things starting to fall apart in 2004. Depending on where you were, unemployment had started to rise, and the housing market began to crash. I know because I moved to avoid losing my job, and I had a heck of a time selling my house.

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The last four years haven't been any bed of roses.

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Originally Posted by huntinman

The last four years haven't been any bed of roses.

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You're right, but it is better than where we were headed. Forgive me for being a sceptic, but I just don't want to go back to where we were.

The tax rate might be lower but with closing deductions and loopholes the return will be less, but to keep the base lower is better to stimulate business. There is no way to generate enough money to effectively pay down the debt through cutting spending alone without being so drastic it will put the economy in a tailspin. The "tax the rich" stuff gets old. That is simply a cozy way to get rates up and then hit the rest because that in itself is not enough "revenue enhancement". Here is some insider stuff that is Obama's gift to the middle class starting January 2013:

Hidden in bills as riders to the American public:

- Home sales fee 3.8%
- Non-eco car sales fee 1.2%
- EPA fee on homes that do not meet the Dems standards BEFORE sale (windows, roofing, hvac, washer/dryer, water heater, water/elec fixtures)
- Private school fee
- Agriculture fees on rancher and farmer (passed to consumer markets)
- Service fees for repair shops, barber shops, ammo, guns, conventions, waste, etc...

The next wave of legislation:
- Fees on 401k, benefits, selling stock, social security, inheritance tax is an additional $5K per $100K.
- ID not needed to vote
- Expand role of President (unlimited - do away with pledge, reduce military, disband USMC, expanded executive powers to override congress and no more budgets.)

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Originally Posted by HPL

I'm not an economist but I believe that the main spur to job creation if Romney gets elected will be the change in perception. Currently, most business owners I know feel that the administration is hostile to business, creating an uncertainty that makes capital investment seem very risky. I believe that the republicans will be viewed as pro-business and will give many business owners the confidence to expand.

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I am not an economist either, but I don't know any savvy business people that passed on opportunities to make money for the past 4 years because they were afraid to make an investment. They just made calculated investments. Many businesses have managed to do well over the last 4 years, if they were well run.

In my opinion, the economy will be the biggest factor in determining whether businesses will be successful. Republicans may be viewed as pro-business, but they were also at the helm when the economy began to crash.

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Originally Posted by kjrice

The tax rate might be lower but with closing deductions and loopholes the return will be less, but to keep the base lower is better to stimulate business. There is no way to generate enough money to effectively pay down the debt through cutting spending alone without being so drastic it will put the economy in a tailspin. The "tax the rich" stuff gets old. That is simply a cozy way to get rates up and then hit the rest because that in itself is not enough "revenue enhancement". Here is some insider stuff that is Obama's gift to the middle class starting January 2013:

Hidden in bills as riders to the American public:

- Home sales fee 3.8%
- Non-eco car sales fee 1.2%
- EPA fee on homes that do not meet the Dems standards BEFORE sale (windows, roofing, hvac, washer/dryer, water heater, water/elec fixtures)
- Private school fee
- Agriculture fees on rancher and farmer (passed to consumer markets)
- Service fees for repair shops, barber shops, ammo, guns, conventions, waste, etc...

The next wave of legislation:
- Fees on 401k, benefits, selling stock, social security, inheritance tax is an additional $5K per $100K.
- ID not needed to vote
- Expand role of President (unlimited - do away with pledge, reduce military, disband USMC, expanded executive powers to override congress and no more budgets.)

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He's got that one down already... dems have not had a budget in 3 years.