Bird Placement

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Originally Posted by Kelly Greenwood

I would have thought Angie would have noticed that there is only one station with at least two white coats (#4) and that it is a huge huge throw for a dead bird.

I do think Barrier birds are a hard concept at times, and subtle angled cover is great at gently pushing dog up wind of mark.

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To be honest I didn't pay attention to how many people were standing at each gun station though, *hello* that would have made sense. I was looking at the throws and bird placement.

Angie

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Originally Posted by Jeff Huntington

Well David thanks for adding to my thread. By the way people learn in different manners

If I was as knowledgeable as you won't have to ask questions

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Could be Sport, but since you want a cheat sheet here goes.

Triple: long left bird throwing left to right angle back, short middle bird right ttoo left towards the line to the left bird, right bird throwing tight reverse hip pocket into the back of the short gun. Make the short bird the go bird as most HT people like a short go bird (which in this case makes the set up harder running through a fall on one side and tight to the backside of the gun on the other). On the proper terrain (i.e some rolling terrain maybe where the dog looses sight of the long gun before clearing the short gun, or rowed cropfields like cut corn where a dog gets lost anyway)and cover set up correctly for the wind most HRC finished dogs don't come through that set up well at all, reason being most hunt test people don't train on those concepts especially in a tighter set up.
My point was as cool or wicked depending upon your view as this set up could be, as a whole it may work in only a few situations that you may ever run into.

As far as idividual mark placement one of the toughest that I have run recently was with a FT training group, the gunner shot and threw the bird up against a round bail where it bounced off right at the base. My dogs had not seen that, and they sucked at it blowing through under the arc on ridiculous deep hunts. They have seen it now though and that won't happen again.
Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Greenwood;1018800

I do think [B

Barrier birds [/B]are a hard concept at times, and subtle angled cover is great at gently pushing dog up wind of mark.

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I'm sorry but I am unfamiliar with this terminology. Can you please explain what this means?? Thank you very much :)

I take it as a bird thrown close in front of cover, tree-line, or sharp contour all of which would tend to push pup off line. Dogs don't normally like to run straight into a "wall" and will likely flair offline.

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Originally Posted by Good Dogs

I take it as a bird thrown close in front of cover, tree-line, or sharp contour all of which would tend to push pup off line. Dogs don't normally like to run straight into a "wall" and will likely flair offline.

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Tight behind a fallen log, or across a road, ditch, creek or cover change also. Anything that will act as a barrier and make the dog hunt short.

To me discussing bird placement is like playing Madden football, similar terminology but no relation to reality. Good bird placement is like the saying about defining pornography, I can't define it but I know what it is when I see it. :cool:

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Originally Posted by EdA

To me discussing bird placement is like playing Madden football, similar terminology but no relation to reality. Good bird placement is like the saying about defining pornography, I can't define it but I know what it is when I see it. :cool:

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Good analogy....:D

Angie

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Originally Posted by Good Dogs

I take it as a bird thrown close in front of cover, tree-line, or sharp contour all of which would tend to push pup off line. Dogs don't normally like to run straight into a "wall" and will likely flair offline.

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I've seen blinds placed in this manner - ribbon on the wall of cover and the bird placed within inches or right against or even slightly IN to the cover. Very nasty handling issues at the ends of these blinds even in Master, but I've seen them in Senior tests as well.

I'm starting to wonder if they are really fair to 'teams' at all. If there was a cross wind so you could handle to the down side, then all is good and fair. But the ones I've witnessed have had no wind to help the dogs.

Would not want to have to handle a dog at 300 yds with this scenario!

Debbie Tandoc, CA

but the problem is , THIS WILL happen in a real duck hunting scenario, train for it and it will be fair to your dog

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Originally Posted by Codatango

I've seen blinds placed in this manner - ribbon on the wall of cover and the bird placed within inches or right against or even slightly IN to the cover. Very nasty handling issues at the ends of these blinds even in Master, but I've seen them in Senior tests as well.

I'm starting to wonder if they are really fair to 'teams' at all. If there was a cross wind so you could handle to the down side, then all is good and fair. But the ones I've witnessed have had no wind to help the dogs.

Would not want to have to handle a dog at 300 yds with this scenario!

Debbie Tandoc, CA

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Originally Posted by EdA

To me discussing bird placement is like playing Madden football, similar terminology but no relation to reality. Good bird placement is like the saying about defining pornography, I can't define it but I know what it is when I see it. :cool:

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But you must know a thing or two about it. The comment I got from Scoop while watching the first 4th series set up at the Omaha Open was, this is about the best bird placement I've ever seen... ;)