Oct 11 - tonight's VP debate. WATCH IT !

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Originally Posted by Buzz

I thought that he gave Ryan the respect he deserved.

Almost point-by-point Ryan was bested by Biden.

Even though Biden might have "offended" many with his aggressive behavior, it's always better to have people talking about how aggressive one guy was, instead of how defensive the other guy was. While Ryan wasn't so much defensive, Biden dictated the tempo of the debate - which is never a good thing for the other guy.

Ryan really fell into a trap on the stimulus, when he admitted to writing Biden a letter asking for stimulus funds, that should have been a "gnashing teeth" moment for his side.

Ryan was good, but he threw too many numbers out there that will go over everyone's head. Biden spoke in "plainer language."

Ryan was terrible on the Afghanistan war.

Ryan was crushed on Medicare, he said his own grandma was greatly helped by Medicare. You can't say that and then say its a bad program that needs to be overhauled.

So, now I have to get to work and make some money so I can afford to train and run my dogs (I have too many...). Have fun raking me over the coals...

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You are wrong Buzz. You will not be raked over the coals. Keal hulled maybe but not the coals :).

I was not impressed by Bidens behavior. I could care less about the meat of what either says but was more concerned about how they dealt with the stress. I wanted to see who has the better demeanor if they have to step up and take over. Ryan won hands down for what I look at a VP debate for.

If I want the meat of the subjects I will listen to the heavy weights not their puppets.

Richard

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http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Blackstone http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...post-right.png
Did anyone notice that Ryan refused to answer the question about whether or not the mortgage interest tax deduction would be reduced or eliminated for Americans making under $50k per year under their plan? This is a concern I expressed earlier.

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Isn't it perfectly feasible to eliminate the mortgage interest for 2nd homes, and/or only for people whose income is over $500K?

R&R have laid out the parameters of not increasing taxes on the middle class, NOR lower them for the top 1%, so there would be many different ways to structure tax code to accomplish that. I believe that is why the suggestion of a "bucket" of deductions was put forth. Those who are eligible would get to choose which deductions they would claim, but would have an overall "cap" on the amount they could deduct. The "cap" could vary based on the gross or adjusted net income in a way that would assure the middle class (however that is defined!) would be protected.

The income levels and caps on deductions could be indexed ... NOT to overall COI, but to the cost of food and energy! Those two items erode the middle class disposable income more than they do to the higher income levels.

Short of the flat tax concept, that is one of the few "new" ideas that I have seen presented on tax reform ... and it did NOT come from the current administration.

Not taxing interest and capital gains could also be indexed to overall income. Many seniors supplement their SS with small investments, so it would benefit middle income seniors to rely less on social services and more on their own savings and investments. That makes some sense to me. That will encourage more middle income individuals to save for their retirements and put less stress on social services provided by govt taxes on others.

R&R have also indicated that they ARE increasing taxes on the wealthy, because so many seem to miss the fact that they will take SS and Medicare subsidies away from those high income levels in retirement. You might say that they are imposing a form of a flat tax on the wealthy that will not apply to middle or low income groups.

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Originally Posted by Buzz

I thought that he gave Ryan the respect he deserved.

Regardless of B's personal like or dislike of Ryan, Biden still has a responsibility to the voters to behave with good manners. How would you react if Biden treated you that way in a conversation? Would he speak that way to his constituents in the middle class? Every American deserves courtesy and good manners.


Almost point-by-point Ryan was bested by Biden.

Even though Biden might have "offended" many with his aggressive behavior, it's always better to have people talking about how aggressive one guy was, instead of how defensive the other guy was. While Ryan wasn't so much defensive, Biden dictated the tempo of the debate - which is never a good thing for the other guy.

Biden definitely dictated the tempo. If Ryan had followed suit, it would have been an outright brawl. I have to agree with the poster that I would rather have a VP (a heartbeat away) who knows how to keep his cool in the face of such bombast ... not an uncommon trait among our adversaries on the world stage.


Ryan really fell into a trap on the stimulus, when he admitted to writing Biden a letter asking for stimulus funds, that should have been a "gnashing teeth" moment for his side.

At least he didn't resort to lying. Biden got away with lying about some obvious stuff.


Ryan was good, but he threw too many numbers out there that will go over everyone's head. Biden spoke in "plainer language."
Can agree with that.

Ryan was terrible on the Afghanistan war.
Biden made one point with which I could agree. The Iraqis and Afghans need some kind of deadline when they are expected to take responsibility for themselves. Would say that should include a gradual draw-down on financial aid as well.


Ryan was crushed on Medicare, he said his own grandma was greatly helped by Medicare. You can't say that and then say its a bad program that needs to be overhauled.
Since Medicare is not presently financially sustainable, it makes very good sense to financially overhaul to preserve as many benefits as possible.

Why haven't R&R brought up accepting IBM's offer of FREE software to eliminate waste and fraud? Why has everyone forgotten about that?

So, now I have to get to work and make some money so I can afford to train and run my dogs (I have too many...). Have fun raking me over the coals...

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I replied in what I believe is a reasonable way to your post. I wouldn't call it "raking you over the coals" ... just having a discussion.

either Biden was lying or no one felt he was important enough or competent enough to tell what was going on in Libya. Biden is the foreign policy guru . Libya is Obamas war 4 people dead, Biden Laughs and Obama thinks he was great.

On medicare Ryan said it was there for his grandma and mom he hopes one day its there for him his wife and kids it needs reform it will not be there if something is not done its going BANKRUPT Its a good program we should all have it under Obama we wont!

Paul Ryan was very presidential something Biden was not. He kept his cool , thats what we need in America not a bunch of screaming idiots. Now we know why they keep joe locked away from the public the man needs meds. Is he the person you want answering the phone at 3am?

ANOTHER BIDEN BLOOPER LAST NIGHT He said The middle class will pay less, and people making more than $1 MILLION will pay more,” Vice President Joe Biden says of the Obama administration’s plan for taxes. of course obama says making more than $ 250,000 SO The WHITE HOUSE HAD TO DISAVOW THIS STATEMENT TODAY Next tuesday is the Pres debate. Also Obama 2016 comes out on Direct tv cant wait to watch it again its perfect before halloween always enjoy a horror movie.

Obama will be on the daily show Thursday its his 6 th visit to the show since taking office, maybe jon Stewart can ask him a question about Libya instead of whats his fav color.

Joe Buden did exactly what he practiced to do.
No discussion on his lies or RYan's content.

All about the way he acted in the debate.

This is the face of the Democrat party!!!!

It's who they are, it's what they do..............

Jay Carney's press conference today, in reference to Joe's comments about the security in Libya:

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REPORTER: The vice president's comments last night in the debate were widely interpreted as saying that he was -- the administration was absolved. He said, "We weren't told." Okay, so you're saying the State Department was told --

CARNEY: The vice president was speaking about himself and the president and the White House. He was not referring to the administration. Clearly (snickers) since there was a public hearing for 4-1/2 hours where it was discussed openly by individuals working at the State Department, [the] requests that were made. Obviously he was referring to... Uh, he was talking about the administration at large; he was speaking about himself and the president and the White House.

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Hmm ... seems like Hillary was standing right next to the POTUS when he made his announcement; and also at the arrival of the bodies from Libya. She did not brief the POTUS on the State Dept. intel? I thought the idea was that they talked to each other about important stuff like this?

Here we go. Link to factcheck.org:
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/veep-debate-violations/

Seems that both sides got caught in confabulation.

I didnt see this in the above fact checker
The middle class will pay less, and people making more than $1 MILLION will pay more,” Vice President Joe Biden says of the Obama administration’s plan for taxes. of course obama says making more than $ 250,000 SO The WHITE HOUSE HAD TO DISAVOW THIS STATEMENT TODAY