Handle at a Hunt test

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Originally Posted by MooseGooser

I think that is a great question..

My OPINION...

We should all have a pretty good idea of what the size of an AOF should be for a particular mark..

That said.. In JUNIOR.... They are all singles.... the dog only navagates the factors presented on that 1 mark. There is no memory brought into the equation. therefore,, MY PERSONAL belief is the AOF is going to be relativly small.... If that Judge sets something up that throws quite a bit of terrain,, or disrtactions (decoys) ect,, I would think the AOF to be a BIT bigger..

BUT,,, The decision is with the Judge... I personally would not handel a dog in Junior... I would let the dog roll,, hunt the bird,, and t
let the volunteer Judge.. Judge
I wont show my weakness,, and handel a Junior dog..

JMHDAO.

Gooser

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Thanks Gooser. I agree with you. BUT, just as the AOF is your opinion, your co-judge may have a different interpretation of AOF (bigger or smaller), which would allow for a passing score under the scoring scale of 0-10.

Mark, bird technician. I like that. You did sum up a handle at any level pretty nice, regarding bringing attention to "something" as soon as you blow the whistle.

I would hope judges discuss the size of the particular AOF BEFORE the tests start.

as soon as you blow the whistle,the marking part of the test is over

Glad I corrected the post above

tlkin about"blowin" and posting with a phone, can reply get you in trouble:):)

how about this scene....in a junior test.
The dog clearly marked the bird. Went right to it. Was distracted by something (the pen of live birds behind the holding blind, which was very close to where the flyer went down, which got all riled up by the bird boy/gunner). Dog went behind the blind, was handled very cleanly back out from behind the blind and cast over to the bird. He knew right where it was, having marked it initially, went over and picked it up and came back with it.
How would you judge that one?
My point is, having to handle doesn't *always* mean the dog didn't mark well.

Going to the bird and leaving it, for any reason, could be construed as Blinking (which is a fireable offense).

You are right though that, in that instance, the handle required wasn't directly related to the dog's ability to mark the fall.

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Originally Posted by fishduck

When I blow my whistle and start handling to a bird, I have announced to the world that my dog didn't mark. If I am handling back to the area then my dog isn't demonstrating perserverence. Tooting on that whistle is a testament. That is how I see it. If the dog is in the area of the fall hunting what kind of DAH is going to handle that dog. If as a judge, dogs are consistantly handing in the area of the fall the question should be why? Are the falls so close that big hunts will cause a switch? Is there a crate of ducks or a bird technician playing on his I phone that pulls dogs away from the fall? If that is the case then judge as fairly as possible. If it is a set up issue learn from it and don't repeat the same mistake the next time you judge. Marking is of primary importance. To quote Forrest Gump "that is all I have to say about that".

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I want to see a dog hunt the area until it comes up with the bird ...Not just a run in and the handler put a whistle on him...If the dog can't come up with it own its own I don't consider it much of a mark ....I'm not a quick whistle better than a long hunt fan...If the dog is out of the area hunting,handle to the area ,no score on that bird or 0 but not for the series....there are other birds to take into consideration for marking...big difference between o on a bird and 0 on a series.....Steve S

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Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp

Circumstances happen that become unfair to a dog even when they are just singles, in such cases handlers need to use any tools they have available and let the judges judge.

I can attest to this as I have handled the same dog twice in a JH test, (my first ever test) both "shot" flyers. On Land the bird went down but came up walking around (which couldn't be seen until the dog was handled back, into the cover and she flushed it out. She did a nice job a catching it, I remember the judges yelling "don't let her drop it, don't let her drop it", It was a mean biting duck, that clamped on to both mine then the the judges hand as we tried to dispatch it). Dog's other land mark was perfect, Then we get to the water series first mark perfect. Then the flyer goes down appears "dead" but starts to paddle away & dives, just as the pup reaches it. Dog had to be handled to find and catch it, as the duck keeps splashing and diving, the Here command wasn't going to happen ;) Two barely crippled flyers, which she was able to retrieve with a little direction :shock:which she actually took :shock:in our first ever hunt test, I'd say she earned the pass. Still when your only 9-10 mts. old it's no wonder dead thrown birds, never again held the same appeal ;)

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An example of extenuating circumstances ....But , if there were no flyers neither case would have happened ...If no handling were allowed would this have been a fair test for this dog..? I see more rules as taking the judging out of the judges hands ...lets run like a SRS ..that away every one can judge ,no experience necessary....Steve S

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Originally Posted by MooseGooser

I dont think I have to call Mr Mann!! lets just say I am the Judge that day!!!

In your example I quoted,, the dog DID INDEED make my AOF.. The Dog MARKED!!!!!!

Now,,, If the handeler decides to handel to pick up the bird,, then we are going to judge handeling... It better be clean...
The score I give the dog on its mark,, will depend on a bunch of things I will look at while I watch the dog perservere and hunt..
But in your example,, the dog did INDEED mark.. He made the AOF..

if he stays there and hunts for a reasonable amount of time,, but then looks as though he wants to leave,, but the handelr handels,, and the handel is clean,, the dog gets a passing score on that Mark..
The handler HANDELED IN the AOF.. NOT TO IT!! BIG DIFFERENCE.

Its all about making the Particular judges AOF without help..

Gooser

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This seems very clear to me and also a reasonable way to judge a handle on a mark.

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Originally Posted by John Robinson

This seems very clear to me and also a reasonable way to judge a handle on a mark.

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.........and as a judge, I think this is the best, most fair way to look at it and judge it.