Challenge: Accepted

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Originally Posted by Sue Kiefer

That's a good statement but did you see what going to college costs these days?

I too paid my way through college useing pell grants ,Hardees and student loans.
It is becoming extremely difficult for kids to be going to college unless you have parents that have money.
Who the hell has money to be sticking away. I certainly don't.
Come on be more realistic.
Pell Grants can be worked in to a student's financial aid package by having them pay back by doing community service in his/her field for example after graduation.
My kids certainly aren't sticking there damn hands out but I'm not rich either.
Straight A students so hopefully acedemic scolarships or athletic maybe.
Very poor choice of words poster. Very poor.
Sue

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I do not agree with Luvy's choice of words but do agree with the sentiment. But just to give you an idea of how it was in my day - I was offered a academic/athletic scholarship to one of the colleges in MN - $10K grant, $10K scholarship, I was still short $10K, every year - I worked my way through college (state schools) with the aid of the GI Bill, I am a Korean Vet - $110/month for 36 months- It did not cover so there was time out of school to get caught up & some money ahead. There are lots of jobs out there that motivate the unmotivated to get with it. 3 of our 4 sons worked their way through college, they were taught work skills at home so were in demand - because of that they are all productive citizens without their hand out. They own the knowledge so they should pay for it & they are now proud of having done that.

The only aid that should be given are in areas of need in the work force & then only to those who qualify mentally (STEM). Some of our Grandkids are very bright - doesn't count for much these days with grade inflation :(.

My comment about Pell Grants was aimed at showing a huge issue many young voters had with Romney. Is it to give hard earned tax payer money out to others to be educated? In some cases, I think it is. My family would not at all be where they are if the American Dream grant didnt exist. It enabled my dad and his four hard working brothers to get a degree that they used. Does that mean that people dont take advantage of them? Not at all.

Education is an investment. Students have to take it seriously, and so should our country as a whole. That doesnt mean just college. Tech and trade schools are imperitive to keeping production up.

Also if you think about it, it is only so much sticking out your hand for money. If a person graduates from college and gets a job, they begin paying taxes that allow others the same opportunity they recieved. I congratulate you on taking the road less traveled and working your way for college. That is very impressive. If I didnt have farm work, I woulddnt be going to college. My question is, did you refuse college grants and choose to work or were they not afforded to you? Because of my dad's success, I cannot get financial aid and am working my way through college.

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Originally Posted by youngblood

My comment about Pell Grants was aimed at showing a huge issue many young voters had with Romney. Is it to give hard earned tax payer money out to others to be educated? In some cases, I think it is. My family would not at all be where they are if the American Dream grant didnt exist. It enabled my dad and his four hard working brothers to get a degree that they used. Does that mean that people dont take advantage of them? Not at all.

Education is an investment. Students have to take it seriously, and so should our country as a whole. That doesnt mean just college. Tech and trade schools are imperitive to keeping production up.

Also if you think about it, it is only so much sticking out your hand for money. If a person graduates from college and gets a job, they begin paying taxes that allow others the same opportunity they recieved. I congratulate you on taking the road less traveled and working your way for college. That is very impressive. If I didnt have farm work, I woulddnt be going to college. My question is, did you refuse college grants and choose to work or were they not afforded to you? Because of my dad's success, I cannot get financial aid and am working my way through college.

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These days you essentially have to be in poverty to get a pell grant anyway. At least as a white male that is. I have no complaints with people taking out modest loans to get through college as long as they are going to pay them back. I don't understand though why we as tax payers should be required to pay for other's kids to go through college. Those kids can go to state schools and take out loans while working to get through school. Instead everyone wants everything for free and right now. No patience and no willingness to work for anything themselves.

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Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139

Let me reverse it. I'll use your Pell grant freebie. Why should I be willing to let the gov't take my hard earned money thru income taxes so that someone doesn't have to earn what DH and I both worked our butts off to pay for with no grants, loans etc. We both worked and went to college at the same time paying for our classes as we went. Whatever happened to working for what you want rather than just sticking your hand out?

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With talk like this, conservatives will loose again in 2016. I cannot for the life of me get a handle on debating the wisdom of helping those who cannot afford it to attend college. I worked my way through college along with taking student loans. My parents could not afford to contribute to my education fund. It took me longer to graduate, I literally had to schedule required classes so that they conflicted with work. When I graduated I had $10,000 in debt to student loans. But when I started at a state school in 1980 the tuition and room & board was about $3500-$4000/year. Now at the same school the cost is $25,000/year and rising fast. That's just less than 6.5% growth in cost per year on average since I started. No wonder kids are graduating with huge debt, most parents salaries have moved at nowhere near that pace. Back in 1980 the average starting salary for an engineering graduate was $23-25k. To keep up with a growth of say 6.3% inflation in education costs, one would have to start at over $175k now. Heck there aren't may experienced/successful engineers making that today...

My daughter so far is a near straight A student, getting A's in algebra as an 8th grader and reading at college level. I hope like heck she keeps it up so she can get scholarships because otherwise it will eat pretty good into my retirement savings to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by Buzz

With talk like this, conservatives will loose again in 2016. I cannot for the life of me get a handle on debating the wisdom of helping those who cannot afford it to attend college. I worked my way through college along with taking student loans.

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Buzz

This is one of the areas the GOP needs to take a look at. There are many battles in a war. The GOP needs to learn to fight the battles they can win or more of the same will happen in four years. I am a conservative and have been for many years. They, the GOP, needs to realize the changes in America, adjust for the changes, and modernize to those changes or they will continue to be pushed into a corner as irrelevant.

My opinion

Richard

Thank Goodness Buzz.
Someone gets it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sue

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Originally Posted by youngblood

My comment about Pell Grants was aimed at showing a huge issue many young voters had with Romney. Is it to give hard earned tax payer money out to others to be educated? In some cases, I think it is. My family would not at all be where they are if the American Dream grant didnt exist. It enabled my dad and his four hard working brothers to get a degree that they used. Does that mean that people dont take advantage of them? Not at all.

Education is an investment. Students have to take it seriously, and so should our country as a whole. That doesnt mean just college. Tech and trade schools are imperitive to keeping production up.

Also if you think about it, it is only so much sticking out your hand for money. If a person graduates from college and gets a job, they begin paying taxes that allow others the same opportunity they recieved. I congratulate you on taking the road less traveled and working your way for college. That is very impressive. If I didnt have farm work, I woulddnt be going to college. My question is, did you refuse college grants and choose to work or were they not afforded to you? Because of my dad's success, I cannot get financial aid and am working my way through college.

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The thought of even looking for a grant as you put it is just not how I was brought up. You want something you work for it.

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Originally Posted by Buzz

With talk like this, conservatives will loose again in 2016. I cannot for the life of me get a handle on debating the wisdom of helping those who cannot afford it to attend college. I worked my way through college along with taking student loans. My parents could not afford to contribute to my education fund. It took me longer to graduate, I literally had to schedule required classes so that they conflicted with work. When I graduated I had $10,000 in debt to student loans. But when I started at a state school in 1980 the tuition and room & board was about $3500-$4000/year. Now at the same school the cost is $25,000/year and rising fast. That's just less than 6.5% growth in cost per year on average since I started. No wonder kids are graduating with huge debt, most parents salaries have moved at nowhere near that pace. Back in 1980 the average starting salary for an engineering graduate was $23-25k. To keep up with a growth of say 6.3% inflation in education costs, one would have to start at over $175k now. Heck there aren't may experienced/successful engineers making that today...

My daughter so far is a near straight A student, getting A's in algebra as an 8th grader and reading at college level. I hope like heck she keeps it up so she can get scholarships because otherwise it will eat pretty good into my retirement savings to pay for it.

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Buzz,
I don't quite get why you think that something you worked and sacrificed for should be given to someone else.
Which of the 2 of you do you think would appreciate and respect what you have EARNED more?

My feeble education was cobbled together through a variety of means.
I feel what I have I earned, though state schools were in the area of $1,200 a year.
Far less than today.
(Why is that BTW???)
And I did pay nothing (scholarship for football).
I did hold a part time job for pizza and beer money though.

If someone wants an education, they should go get it.
I don't think it should be given to them.
And I don't think it should be expected.
If everyone has a degree, does that then diminish the value?

But then, I am just an angry old white man!!!:cool:

(the best to and for your daughter!!)

With the unemployment rate high,(Mimimum wage set at $7.25hr. usual wage for kids) and the costs of going to college getting higher.
Where do some think that all this extra money is coming from so my 2 kids can go to college FOR EXAMPLE?

Student Loans ? Yet some feel those rates should also be skyhigh??? :(
Frustrating.
Sue

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Originally Posted by Down East Labs 217

Buzz

This is one of the areas the GOP needs to take a look at. There are many battles in a war. The GOP needs to learn to fight the battles they can win or more of the same will happen in four years. I am a conservative and have been for many years. They, the GOP, needs to realize the changes in America, adjust for the changes, and modernize to those changes or they will continue to be pushed into a corner as irrelevant.

My opinion

Richard

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I have many problems with the GOP but this is not one of them, I would have no problem with any kid that achieves a certain test score (to prove their college material), being guaranteed a LOAN to go to a state school, however giving them free handouts to absolutely not necessary.