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Originally Posted by pheasantlab
You set your dog up to fail to be honest with you ....what was the purpose of throwing what you called the diversion bird, while the dog was returning...expecting him or in your terms "hoping he would get up and get the bird"...How can you expect him to accurately "mark" a bird while he is returning from another retrieve....What if he had dropped the bird in his mouth and gone after the hand thrown bird, what would you have done then ?
Dogs running for a Seasoned title in HRC see this kind of hand thrown diversion mark on a return routinely. Evidently, from the quote this dog was familiar with what was expected. In a test, the rules state it is OK to handle a dog to a such a diversion mark.Quote:
This is the first time the dog has ever popped. In this particular case, dog was returning from a blind and I hand threw a diversion bumper (which the dog has been exposed to several times before). After delivering bird, sent for the diversion bird. Dog put on a short hunt, then popped. Being a fairly inexperienced handler, I sat there for a minute hoping he would get up and get the bird, but was also thinking "what do I do". I finally told him to hunt it up (which he did), but did not think that was the correct thing to do. It also got me thinking how I would handle this situation on a mark from a winger.
Evidently, the dog was confused in THIS session. You are correct. Telling the dog to "hunt it up" was a mistake.
When a dog suddenly doesn't do what they normally do right, the first assumption should be they are confused....which usually is rectified by simplifying. Walk out (the dog is fairly close) and handle from a closer distance (establish more control by closing the distance) and make it obvious that you are not particularly happy with the situation.
However, once is not a big deal.
Bon, some people might call that a bird in face. I do it on pile work to get the dog more interested in coming back at a good rate. Perks them up. It's even better if you can pull a live pigeon out of your pocket and shoot it for the dog while he's on his way back. You should see them perk waaay up for a foot tied bantam.
As for the pop, I don't want my dogs to think popping is allowed. I want them moving as quickly as I can get them on thier feet and moving again. Generally, I nick with the proper hand signal to get the dog on the bird. I do not want this to be a major upsetting burn, but, I still want it to be communication to them that they did something wrong. With some dogs, if they pop in the area of the fall, you can nick and call in. They won't come in but the come in whistle get's them up and hunting. If you have a dog that really does come in, then don't do that.
In the OP's case, since the dog was close, I would just cast as quickly as I could and with my voice give the correct cast in the most disgusted voice I could.
I don't want them popped very long. I want them to know they did something wrong and I want to get them up and hunting the mark as quickly as I can. That waiting them out stuff can get stretched out to a pretty long time. By that time, I don't think it's a correction for popping any longer.
Just call me a politically incorrect dog trainer.
I learned the bantam trick from Mr McFall, along with some other uses of it.....and the pulling the pigeon out of the pocket,I must admit I choked on ....the bird got away from me and flew away, never heard the end of that for a couple of days :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard N
Thats it. Have the gunner help the dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff t.
pheasantlab said:Quote:
That's it. Have the gunner help the dog.
The dog has popped this one time (thus the OP's original question) which caught the handler off guard in a situation the dog has seen many times before. There is is no gunner and the bumper (hand thrown from the line by the handler) can't be more than 25-30 yards away.Quote:
In this particular case, dog was returning from a blind and I hand threw a diversion bumper.
Is it just me that thinks there is way too much analysis on this topic?
I like Howard's answer A-Z.
Un-pop them as quickly as possible by whatever means you have. Immediate gunner help is step one and the one with the least potential for creating other problems. I also agree with Howard, a quick come-in whistle without pressure then handle to the bird or use a verbal hup hup, fetch, hunt it up or whatever you would typically say. As others stated don't make a big issue of it for a one time occurence. If the pop becomes a repetitive issue a come in whistle with a nick to get the dog moving, then proceed as previously suggested. The key whatever method you employ is to get the dog moving immediately.
There's an old saying that seems appropriate; "you don't have a problem until you point the finger at it". your dog has popped one time, you don't have a popping problem. simply get the dog to the bird by guestering with a "fetch it up".
next time throw a wing clipped pigeon or some sort of live fowl. At some point in his career your dog will probably pop, i prefer to correct it on blind retrieves, there's less side effects.
good luck
GG
How old is the dog? What specific training have you done with him? How far away are the marks he's popping on? How much cover? You know; specifics of his 'history'. Kwick's approach is better reasoned than just throwing out tips to have a thrower help, or a launcher quack. Some of those ideas can help, but they can also cause problems of their own. Once we know more about the actual dog's makeup it will be more appropriate to suggest help ideas.
Evan