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Definition of style

14K views 53 replies 34 participants last post by  RookieTrainer 
#1 ·
Is a high power dog running around out of control stylish? Can a dog with less athletic ability be stylish? I would like to hear what you guys think.
 
#2 ·
Out of control is unappealing to me. I don't care if the dog is as fast as a cheetah, out of control isn't what I look for in a blind. A slower dog (Not a pig, but not a speed demon.) can be stylish. To me, style is when a dog has swagger. It's confident & enjoying it's task. Just my opinion.
 
#6 ·
Seems you might be fishing Scott. No one thinks an out of control dog has style. But a dog that walks when sent after a bird is one that has no style, and the rules say that such dogs should be judged down compared to a stylish dog where the work is otherwise similar. Even older dogs that have slowed down, show style by their effort. And dogs that seem ground down by their training (& its application techniques) usually are the ones that walk or leave the line in a zombie-like slow-motion trot.
 
#8 ·
Hey Scott,

Hope all is well with you and the family.

Yes, an out of control wild dog can exhibit style. A dog that runs with enthusiasm but under control also exhibits style. A plodding dog that pin points marks and runs blinds like its on a string does not.

To me, for lack of a better term, style means "enthusiasm" for the game. I think in general, its like porn, you know it when you see it.

In the games we play, everything is a balance. You can have a pin point marker, but they must show trainability in order to progress through the stake and be there at the end of the day.

A "10" or excellence in style, isn't going to keep a dog in if his marking is lacking or trainability is lacking.

Balance balance balance.

WRL
 
#11 ·
Style is moving with confidence toward the birds in a manner that is pleasing to the eye of the beholder. Getting the job done in a efficient manner, so to speak. Like someone said, "You know it , when you see it". Bill
 
#14 ·
I agree you know style when you see style. As an aside, I have never witnessed a dog failed for style in a hunt test. Has anyone seen style as the reason for being dropped in either a trial or test?
Yes, from trials, and on more than one occasion. The rule book supports doing so, I might add. But to the OP, I believe speed is a component of style, but is relative to each dog to a point. You can't expect a 12 year old to move as fast as he once did. But he may be as fast as his anatomy and physiology will allow. You can tell when that is not so by watching.

I define style as follows: " Style: One of the Webster’s dictionary definitions of style is “showiness”. This is a term used to describe the speed, spirit, or enthusiasm with which a dog moves (going out and back) during a retrieve." You can see it, even without being an expert, when a dog is showing these traits together on retrieve, or when he isn't. Slinking around, or barely trotting on the other hand - each having 'speed' components in the negative - can be readliy identified too.

So, are you planning on contrasting this term with momentum at some point, or did you have another reason for this question? What are you fishing for?:D

Evan
 
#17 ·
Style is about attitude. Is the dog confident and ENJOYING the work.

A 2yo can be moving fast but running scared and out of obligation and the 12 yo can be moving slow knows where he is going and having the time of his life.

As a judge, Which dog would you rather call back to the next series to watch again?

Tim
 
#41 · (Edited)
Style is about attitude. Is the dog confident and ENJOYING the work. A 2yo can be moving fast but running scared and out of obligation and the 12 yo can be moving slow knows where he is going and having the time of his life. As a judge, Which dog would you rather call back to the next series to watch again?
+2

Quoted for truth. Desire, desire, desire, it is all about DESIRE!

Desire to work! Desire to be there! Desire to find the bird! Desire to retrieve!

See my signature line.
 
#19 ·
It should be mentioned that what many see in a dog that has been correctly described here as "style", is often labled as "momentum"; not the same things.

Evan
 
#25 ·
I don't know if this will make it clearer, but perhaps it might help.



Evan
 
#27 ·
No out of control is junk. You know damm well what is style Scott.
My definition of style. There are all forms of style when it comes to this
Game. In my mind the dog that shows a attitude that its not enjoying itself
Lacks style. Style ain't speed ain't the big entry ain't running with a head of steam
To put up a very quick hunt be cause it was lined to area.
Style is a mutt that sits whatches birds and retrieves them with accuracy
 
#28 ·
Just got done hunting so I will tell you what I believe a stylish retriever is. When a retriever walks with confidence from the blind to the mat but is aware without being told were it needs to be. The retriever sits at the mat steady but confident preparing for the test eyes forward ears up and feet on the ground. He leaves the mat when sent with confidence and responds to commands promptly and with presision. Extremely stylish dogs make lite work of blinds even keyhole blinds. Dogs that have more momentum than control are not stylish it's like a super model that can't walk in heals.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Scott,

I think most would agree that all those attributes are desireable in a working retriever. I can't make a logical connection with style when considering any of them, especially in a traditional sense. There are some nice descriptions of various gundog breeds on the Pheasants Forever site that may help provide insight into a more classic view of style as relates to hunting dogs. For example:

Breed: Golden Retriever
Type: Retriever
Hunting Style
Golden Retrievers are versatile hunting retrievers that are well suited to cold hunting conditions due to an outer coat that is dense and water repellent. They are a tough and durable breed with good speed and agility and a great love of water. Goldens will quarter in front of the hunter to flush upland birds and should stay within comfortable gun range. They live to retrieve.
Breed: Labrador Retriever
Type: Retriever
Hunting Style
Labrador Retrievers, or Labs, are versatile hunting retrievers that are well suited to adverse weather conditions and very cold water. They are a tough and durable breed combining a sturdy build with good speed and agility. Labs will quarter in front of the hunter to flush upland birds and should stay within comfortable gun range.

There are numerous other breeds listed in much the same manner. References to speed and agility typify style, along with grace of movement, high tail, enthusiasm, etc. What you're referencing as "style" appear to have more connection with learned behavior, flavored with some innate traits.

Can you see where I'm coming from on this?

Evan
 
#29 ·
I was lucky enough to judge a team that showed my definition of style several years ago. We were doing a water blind Peppers farm in Western Washington and Lanse Brown was running one of his dogs. I will never forget what I witnessed that day it was on a level that I have yet to witness since that day and doubt I ever will it was the definition of style. They were a team that performed with understanding, confidence and athletic ability. I believe to this day the handler and the dog had perfected the game. It was if they were speaking the same language for that short period of time.
 
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