Failure to "Go"

I'm new here, so be patient with me.

I recently adopted a "military" bomb detection dog drop out. He was too soft(sensitive) for their training regimen. He just turned 2. He is The best retrieving black lab I've ever had. He is pretty well trained in retrieves, blind retrieves, stops on whistle, casting, etc. my problem is sometimes he doesn't go on command on a retrieve if he didn't see the dummy, or if I have a pile, he stops after 5 or so retrieves (I have a bucket as a memory location there.
he will eventually take off, ESP. If I nudge him by his collar. What can I do to train him to reliably "go" on a blind retrieve?

Thanks
Milt

Sounds like he's been trained with the collar and had his force training, making that assumption, have you tried "heel/nick/heel" while taking a step forward, then sending on back again?

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he stops after 5 or so retrieves

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So would I.

It's awfully hard to judge these things without seeing him (and you) but at two, with such a mixed history you can anticipate a few bugaboos along the way. It feels like a prima facie case of boredom, perhaps combined with a lack of confidence.

If he was in my kennels I'd both challenge and enthuse him with a series of long memory and ladder retrieves in heavy cover, give up on the "cued" blinds, and kick the white bucket into touch. Teaching blinds is a bit of an art rather than an exact science, but I've always tried to get over the cued stage asap; it really doesn't teach very much and if continued for too long can be counterproductive. Training with a some fresh shot birds as opposed to dummies or bumpers would be an aim too.

I hesitate to give advice as to collar training because I don't do it, but if you think I might be right about the confidence and boredom, throw the collar over the garden wall, put some fun and birds in his life, and avoid what to him is probably pointless repetition. To teach a genuine non cued blind, just stuff a dead bird into a bush (unseen) and send him from a few yards. You'll see the lights come on! Build it up from there.

Eug

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Originally Posted by Rick_C

Sounds like he's been trained with the collar and had his force training, making that assumption, have you tried "heel/nick/heel" while taking a step forward, then sending on back again?

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He is collared trained and force trained. Can you describe the heel/nick/heel procedure?

Milt

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Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp

So would I.

It's awfully hard to judge these things without seeing him (and you) but at two, with such a mixed history you can anticipate a few bugaboos along the way. It feels like a prima facie case of boredom, perhaps combined with a lack of confidence.

If he was in my kennels I'd both challenge and enthuse him with a series of long memory and ladder retrieves in heavy cover, give up on the "cued" blinds, and kick the white bucket into touch. Teaching blinds is a bit of an art rather than an exact science, but I've always tried to get over the cued stage asap; it really doesn't teach very much and if continued for too long can be counterproductive. Training with a some fresh shot birds as opposed to dummies or bumpers would be an aim too.

I hesitate to give advice as to collar training because I don't do it, but if you think I might be right about the confidence and boredom, throw the collar over the garden wall, put some fun and birds in his life, and avoid what to him is probably pointless repetition. To teach a genuine non cued blind, just stuff a dead bird into a bush (unseen) and send him from a few yards. You'll see the lights come on! Build it up from there.

Eug

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Being a "sensitive" dog, his collar never goes over the level 2 setting. I can barely feel it myself. It does a really good job at reminding him he has to listen to me. What do you mean with "cued stage?"

Since you know little about his prior training, I am also wondering if "5" was the magic number ie: do 5 repetition sof force to pile, 5 blind retrievers, 5 of this, 5 of that... was this how he was trained. Either way, you have to get him out of it. With a soft dog, need to keep enthusiasm going.

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Originally Posted by Miltcook

He is collared trained and force trained. Can you describe the heel/nick/heel procedure?

Milt

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They way I read it, the dog is no going on blinds. If you say "back" and he doesn't go, take a step forward while saying "heel", give a nick, then say "heel" again. don't get figgety with lining, if the dog is pointed in the right general direction (which he should be after taking a step forward with you and sitting), give your cue (dead, dead bird or whatever you use) then, "back". Sometimes making it a bit "hot" behind the dog will encourage him not to want to stick around next time you send him.

Souinds like you need some education. I'm not trying to be critical. I would order as a minimun Mike Lardy's Retriever Journal Articles Vol. I. They only cost $25 and can be ordered from YBS Media. It goes through basics and teaches how to deal with "bugging", "no-goes", etc. If you want to go further you can order a training dvd set. There are a number available. Do a search and you will find lots of information on the training programs available.

You said he did lots of things (retrieves, whistle sits, hand signals). How did he learn these things?

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Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt

Souinds like you need some education. I'm not trying to be critical. I would order as a minimun Mike Lardy's Retriever Journal Articles Vol. I. They only cost $25 and can be ordered from YBS Media. It goes through basics and teaches how to deal with "bugging", "no-goes", etc. If you want to go further you can order a training dvd set. There are a number available. Do a search and you will find lots of information on the training programs available.

You said he did lots of things (retrieves, whistle sits, hand signals). How did he learn these things?

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I freely admit he knows more than I. :). I want to keep him trained, as I know lack of practice will allow him to forget and that would be a shame for what he is.

i have read Dokken's retriever training book a couple of times, but it doesn't really go into problems that well.

The contracting company that trains these dogs for IED detection gets them at 1 yr old already trained as a "sporting dog". They then take them into training that works on the specifics of bomb detection work. They stopped training him after 6months or so due to his sensitive side. They work them hard and he wasn't cut out for it, so I adopted him out of that program. I don't know which kennel they got him from.

He is a very calm dog, for his age, and is great around all the kids and other dogs. Calm. Which I guess is why they didn't want him. :)

Darrin Green may have some insight for you. He trains bomb detection dogs and is on this forum. Maybe he will chime in with some nuggets of wisdom.