Encouragement for amateurs and pos. trainers in field trials

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Originally Posted by moscowitz

Jennifer not to down play the accomplishments of the 5 qual. But there are some great Goldens out there running with the big boys and can hold their own. There's Elizabeth Wilson with Woody just needs a win for an FC, there's Purdy, Tri Fecta and more. I don't see these dogs as Goldens. I see them as good dogs.
By the way who is your dog out of? I like dogs sired by Push.
Finally this was a bad year for Goldens - two of my favorite Goldens passed - Marshall Richards Star and Ellis Ibbotson's Brandy. Brandy is Woody's Dam. I think of them often.

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I see Goldens that are running with the big dogs in the big Stakes as....good Golden Retrievers, acknowledging the great talent in the breed. I do see them as Golden Retrievers...and am very proud to own, train and run them.

Congratulations on your thoughtful training, Jennifer.

Congratulations to Lindsay Ridgeway and his Golden Retriever on 5 Q JAMS!! ...against amateurs and pro's.. :)

Judy

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Originally Posted by EdA

Do you have some evidence for this other than anecdotal?

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No it's anecdotal. But I'm not just talking about not using the ecollar. I'm talking about clicker training the sit, heel, whistle sit, fetch, hold etc etc., then using positive reinforcement training methods for honest water entry, channel swimming, avoiding poison birds, etc. I'm not talking about using a rat gun instead of an ecollar, or using tennis shoe training to run the dog down for a correction. I'm talking about using positive reinforcement science in lieu of negative reinforcement science. Although, I do use a little neg. reinforcement or punishment in my training - I use the word "no" and some blocking.

Moscowitz, thanks for the note about Goldens. I know there are a lot of greats! My pup is out of FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer. Her maternal grandsire is FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Explosion. And so far she seems like a chip off the ole block. But we'll see.

Here's my question prefaced with a statement: I posted this thread to show newbies and amateurs like myself that it's possible to be successful finishing Quals even with your first trial dog, even if you're competing against pros. And even if you don't use compulsion/force. Why would anyone see this as a negative? or be threatened by it?

Thank so much for your comments Judy Chute. It means a lot coming from you! And thanks to Erin and the rest for the good comments!! This is a positive thing no matter how a person decides to train.

Claimsj - not sure it's ego getting in the way when you are training your dog to maximize his/her enjoyment of the sport and training. It is his journey to train this way and really enjoy his dog. If it was ego, he would be more concerned about a title and not care how he got it.

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion

No it's anecdotal. But I'm not just talking about not using the ecollar. I'm talking about clicker training the sit, heel, whistle sit, fetch, hold etc etc., then using positive reinforcement training methods for honest water entry, channel swimming, avoiding poison birds, etc. I'm not talking about using a rat gun instead of an ecollar, or using tennis shoe training to run the dog down for a correction. I'm talking about using positive reinforcement science in lieu of negative reinforcement science. Although, I do use a little neg. reinforcement or punishment in my training - I use the word "no" and some blocking.

Moscowitz, thanks for the note about Goldens. I know there are a lot of greats! My pup is out of FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Stanley Steamer. Her maternal grandsire is FC AFC CFC CAFC OTCH TNT's Explosion. And so far she seems like a chip off the ole block. But we'll see.

Here's my question prefaced with a statement: I posted this thread to show newbies and amateurs like myself that it's possible to be successful finishing Quals even with your first trial dog, even if you're competing against pros. And even if you don't use compulsion/force. Why would anyone see this as a negative? or be threatened by it?

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Because it's different. This game breeds experts. We all think our way is the best, or only way... And everyone else is doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by claimsadj

But what could the dog be ha the trainer taken advantage of all of the technology available today? Special dogs are hard to come by. I'm not knocking anyone for how they train but rather playing devils advocate. I would hate to know I had a really special dog and I let pride get in the way of the dog maxing out its potential.

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Part of the technology available today includes the clicker. How have you taken advantage of clicker training? Also playing the devil's advocate.

To each his/her own.

I would not be encouraged by a person with a 5 year old dog, who had only obtained a JAM, regardless of methodology.

Thats very impressive!

Looks like, counting Cape Fear...4 JAMS and 2 Reserve JAMs. All but one JAM earned this season, 2012.

Topbrass Lad of the Lakes SH WCX **, "Laddie"..nice pedigree!

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Originally Posted by Ted Shih

To each his/her own.

I would not be encouraged by a person with a 5 year old dog, who had only obtained a JAM, regardless of methodology.

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ha, Ted you sure know how to rip the cap off of the bottle.

I was encouraged to see that he had trained a dog by himself and did at least get acknowledgement at the trial, but in the same respect a JAM will not get you a point. People run field trials to title their dogs paying upwards of at least $200 a weekend when you figure in fuel, time and entry fees. If you want to just do it because you enjoy running your dog then you can do hunt tests where they go against a standard.

I am not a field trialer but I completely understand where Ted is coming from paying $1000 this trial season and getting nothing other than a nod is not very encouraging.

Darrin,

Some, ok, a lot of the 100% pos camp do think you are devil incarnate. They also think hunting and killing birds and owning guns is the devil's work, too.

I don't feel that way and Lindsay has said he doesn't feel that way. I am a bird hunter and own guns and I have friends who use the ecollar and force methods whom I respect. So does Lindsay, according to what he has written.

If I or Lindsay felt the way you portray in your post, I don't think either of us would be Lardy disciples.

But, yes, I guess if there are a few or a lot of positive only people ranting negative things about collar users, that would cause a defensive stance.