The Fiscal Cliff

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Originally Posted by Dan Storts

Here is a math 101 on the debt. We now in have $16.5 T in debt (that's $146,000 per American household by the way) and it's expected to rise to over $22 T at the end of Obama's term ,(that's $196 K per house hold) Since our government has no desire to quit spending where does it end.? How does it end? Currently they spend $9 B a day and $4 B of that is borrowed raising taxes on the top 2% gets you $6 B annually or 1 1/2 days borrowing . Now just ask your self, since our government has no desire to quit spending we must therefore borrow and how long can we borrow? Can we borrow $200 K a household? $250 K a house hold, will the Japanese, Chinese and American people continue to lend our government money at $300K a household .what is the credit card limit? Truth is we're broke and they are searching for a straw man. BTW you can depreciate a horse, I believe over 5 years, if you your hobby good enough to become a business.

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Yes and that is a very reasonable deduction (looking for the sarcasm smiley), yet I drive 300 miles to work a week and can't deduct anything for it, $77K for a horse and Republicans will defend this to there grave, yet a dependent deduction is socialism.:D

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Originally Posted by murral stark

Do you claim all of your dependants on your w-4? Why do you have such a problem with people legally working the tax system. If it is a legal deduction, the're not doing anything wrong. I don't think Romney, and others of his wealth should only pay 15% on capital gains. It is income and should be taxed as such.

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YOu are truly issing the point. These people now have zero federal tax liability and will pay zero federal incoe taxes plus get a check from the iRS (the taxpayer). I have a problem with the law, it takes my hard earned money from me and gives it to them.
As I'm self employed I don't file a w-4 with my employer (me) I write checks to the gov't every quarter.

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Originally Posted by mngundog

Yes and that is a very reasonable deduction (looking for the sarcasm smiley), yet I drive 300 miles to work a week and can't deduct anything for it, $77K for a horse and Republicans will defend this to there grave, yet a dependent deduction is socialism.:D

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Get it right. The refundable credit is socialism not the dependent deduction! They are 2 completely different things. A deduction reduces taxable income while a credit reduces tax liability.

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Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139

Get it right. The refundable credit is socialism not the dependent deduction! They are 2 completely different things. A deduction reduces taxable income while a credit reduces tax liability.

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Why are they two completely different things, you said it yourself

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Why the heck should I be subsidizing their choice to have kids

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If you choose to have five kids you just got yourself five more deductions, by your definition that's socialism, redistributing my wealth to pay for your kids. You throw that word socialism around alot but only at one party, not once have you used it with Romneycare maybe 20 times with Obamacare, funny stuff there.

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Originally Posted by mngundog

Why are they two completely different things, you said it yourself
If you choose to have five kids you just got yourself five more deductions, by your definition that's socialism, redistributing my wealth to pay for your kids. You throw that word socialism around alot but only at one party, not once have you used it with Romneycare maybe 20 times with Obamacare, funny stuff there.

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The refunable part of the credit where the IRS cuts a check to someone on top of having zero federal tax liability is socialism. By the way I stated that this refundable credit started under Bush and Obama greatly increased the amount of the credit so yes I throw it at the republicans too.
YOU do understand that any income tax witheld is refunded due to zero tax liability and then they get even more money!

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Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139

YOu are truly issing the point. These people now have zero federal tax liability and will pay zero federal incoe taxes plus get a check from the iRS (the taxpayer). I have a problem with the law, it takes my hard earned money from me and gives it to them.
As I'm self employed I don't file a w-4 with my employer (me) I write checks to the gov't every quarter.

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On a w-4 you can choose to have more money witheld from your check by claiming "0" so you don't have to pay in at the end of the year because you overpaid on your taxable income. Or, you can claim all of your dependants and get more take home money and probably owe taxes at the end of the year. Let's just go to a flat tax with no deductions or credits. that way everybody pays the same effective tax rate.

Get ready for a cut in pay. My daughter is a teacher was told today she will see a much smaller paycheck Jan 4 if we go over the fiscal cliff.

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Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139

The refunable part of the credit where the IRS cuts a check to someone on top of having zero federal tax liability is socialism. By the way I stated that this refundable credit started under Bush and Obama greatly increased the amount of the credit so yes I throw it at the republicans too.
YOU do understand that any income tax witheld is refunded due to zero tax liability and then they get even more money!

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When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Have a couple kids and then you will get your portion.;)

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Originally Posted by gmhr1

Get ready for a cut in pay. My daughter is a teacher was told today she will see a much smaller paycheck Jan 4 if we go over the fiscal cliff.

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Where have you been hiding?

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Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139

The refunable part of the credit where the IRS cuts a check to someone on top of having zero federal tax liability is socialism. By the way I stated that this refundable credit started under Bush and Obama greatly increased the amount of the credit so yes I throw it at the republicans too.
YOU do understand that any income tax witheld is refunded due to zero tax liability and then they get even more money!

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I can't stand the free loaders anymore than you can, giving money back is ridiculous, you and me can both agree on that, always going after low income earners with total disregard to the tax breaks given to the higher income guys is where you and me separate. It sickens me more when a billionaire can deduct 100's of thousand for their hobbies or family vacations more than a guy making 30K getting $90 tax break.