British Labs / No Force????

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Originally Posted by fishduck

I have witnessed very nice British dogs. No arguments here that they can and will perform the task. .

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I hope one of 'em was mine! :)

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Originally Posted by fishduck

I have never met a person who trained with a current modern e collar program that returned to their old program

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I did it both ways, and I can say that there are PLENTY of adversives in "British" training, and I would not hang up my ecollar and go back, either.

Have a good day.

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Originally Posted by GulfCoast

I hope one of 'em was mine! :)



I did it both ways, and I can say that there are PLENTY of adversives in "British" training, and I would not hang up my ecollar and go back, either.

Have a good day.

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Ellie Mae is always the dog I think about when the British stereotype is presented. She is simply a very nice lab that anyone would be happy to have in the blind.:D

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Has anyone out there seen a dog that would consistently handle a poison bird in a hunting situation that was trained without being force fetched, or without force to get the dog pasted the poison bird and on the the cripple that would be lost if it was not retrieved first?

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Yupp. Mine. And lots of others. If you pick up on driven shoots, it's a basic tool of the trade. Very often you'll send your dog for a pricked bird that's still in the air and planing on for hundreds of yards and he'll have to pass a lot of dead ones on the way. On other occasions there will be a few dead birds lying in the open with a runner amongst them.

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Do these no force british labs hunt woodcock? Not too many dogs will pick them up without forcing.

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Again, mine do. So do the others I see around.

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The British trainers have such bad teeth the dogs are having a hard time understanding them.

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And the appallingly bad manners of the dogs in the US are all too clearly reflected in their handlers who themselves are easily distinguished by their wobbly fat arses and waddling gait.

Eug

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Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp

Yupp. Mine. And lots of others. If you pick up on driven shoots, it's a basic tool of the trade. Very often you'll send your dog for a pricked bird that's still in the air and planing on for hundreds of yards and he'll have to pass a lot of dead ones on the way. On other occasions there will be a few dead birds lying in the open with a runner amongst them.

Eug

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The poison bird scenarios I've seen in AKC events involve sending the dog on a blind retrieve, after it has seen shot bird. It has to ignore the shot bird and get the bird it didn't see fall. I think the scenario you have described involves a dog ignoring fallen birds as it is going to a shot bird that it has marked?

Renee,

Either or both. On a driven shoot the dog won't see a bird fall he'll see dozens, and still be expected to take whatever line he's given; if you fluff it up in a Trial that's you on the bus home just as Robert described. On the first drive last Monday five dogs picked 120 birds, so one falling out of the sky is hardly a novelty.

Eug

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Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp

Renee,

Either or both. On a driven shoot the dog won't see a bird fall he'll see dozens, and still be expected to take whatever line he's given; if you fluff it up in a Trial that's you on the bus home just as Robert described. On the first drive last Monday five dogs picked 120 birds, so one falling out of the sky is hardly a novelty.

Eug

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Thanks, as another poster wrote it does indeed seem that comparing the trials is "apples and oranges."

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Originally Posted by leemac

Has anyone out there seen a dog that would consistently handle a poison bird in a hunting situation that was trained without being force fetched, or without force to get the dog pasted the poison bird and on the the cripple that would be lost if it was not retrieved first?

British or American or Chinese is of no consequence.

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I am not using force to train my dog to leave poison birds. She doesn't get to hunt much, and we are not real advanced, so I can't (yet) answer the part about "hunting" and "consistently." This is the way I learned to teach it from the Lardy TRT program.

[QUOTE=Colonel Blimp;

And the appallingly bad manners of the dogs in the US are all too clearly reflected in their handlers who themselves are easily distinguished by their wobbly fat arses and waddling gait.

Eug[/QUOTE].

We have wobbly fat arses cause we still have our teeth at age 20.:D.

Yellow machine and Shawn White, grow up a little and keep the insults to yourselves, if you have nothing decent to write then don't bother.
This forum doesn't need that crap, looks bad for the forum.

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Originally Posted by Dooley

Yellow machine and Shawn White, grow up a little and keep the insults to yourselves, if you have nothing decent to write then don't bother.
This forum doesn't need that crap, looks bad for the forum.

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They're called jokes, not insults.

Maybe not good jokes but jokes none the less.;-)