Michigan........

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Originally Posted by JS

Sad to say you are correct. That was a bumper sticker on my car 40 years ago. People laughed at us when we said there would be no jobs someday. Especially the young kids.

When Nike moved their shops out, we said, "don't buy them". The kids smirked and said, "kiss my azz ... they're cool shoes".

And so it went. The rest of the shoe companies watched and followed suit. Even New Balance is gone now. I still buy them cause they held out the longest.

Those kids are 50 years old now.

What's amazing is folks still want to take up that same argument.

Oh well. I've got mine ... to Hell with it.

JS

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Makes me unhappy - they used to have a canvas tenny that was awesome - But I just do without - & shop the hell out of the Farmers Markets :cool: -

But I'll pass one on to you - who apparently lost interst in the Union thread - By UPS today I received my wife's Xmas present - A throw from Swan's Island (in itself an interesting story) - avoid the state sales tax so don't pay tribute to the public employees union - not shown on their website as it is undyed - You can still compete with a niche product - just not in a union state with the highest minimum wage in the nation :(.

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Originally Posted by mngundog

Sorry, I didn't know it was a serious question. With a union contract and a salary schedule in place the manager probably wouldn't be able to give an individual employee that pay raise (the contract was already negotiated). I work at a non-union company and we also you a pay schedule for which we would not deviate from, although we could. Salary schedules are far from perfect but in some cases they work very well.

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Thanks, that's kinda what I thought. Sounds like the way the auto company shops price repairs (go look in a book and say "book says job will take so long", so you get charged for that time, even if there is an efficient mechanic who knows his stuff and can get it done faster.

It occurs to me that the unions addressed issues that existed when the began ... but do the reasons for their existence still exist today? Ironically, we now seem to have Federal regulations and agencies that are supposedly there to protect the workers WRT working conditions. Are either the unions or those regulations & agencies superfluous?

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Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy

It occurs to me that the unions addressed issues that existed when the began ... but do the reasons for their existence still exist today? Ironically, we now seem to have Federal regulations and agencies that are supposedly there to protect the workers WRT working conditions. Are either the unions or those regulations & agencies superfluous?

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If you mean like be required to show up 20 minutes prior to shift or to stay 15 minutes after shift without getting paid, or working 5-6 hour without a break, that stuff is still happening. If you have a problem with it, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

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Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy

It occurs to me that the unions addressed issues that existed when the began ... but do the reasons for their existence still exist today? Ironically, we now seem to have Federal regulations and agencies that are supposedly there to protect the workers WRT working conditions. Are either the unions or those regulations & agencies superfluous?

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Good point and it appears a lot of the middle men need to or already are getting pushed out of the work pipeline these days. If you ever look at a detailed line item breakdown of where everything attached to a union mans wage goes it is mind boggling. Its not just the union, the funds and the man, there are countless others who have figured out how to get their hands in there as well. With all the pimping of the mans wage going on and watching the union bubble burst it makes you wonder if any of it is really necessary or just a lot of middle players trying to keep their slice of pie.

I can only speak to my industry. Unions are very much needed. The govt agencies there to protect workers from bad conditions are useless. Most people that get wrongfully terminated typically don't have the financial means to hire an attorney, not to mention all the hoops someone has to go through to even get it heard by a judge. The union is their attorney that stands up for them and keeps unscrupulous employers at bay. Most employers don't want you to live comfortably. They only give you enough wages and benefits to keep you hungry and coming back. typically in my industry, even with a union, there is a .15 per hour raise, but the cost of insurance goes up and eats up any raise they get. It's a vicious cycle.

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Originally Posted by mngundog

If you mean like be required to show up 20 minutes prior to shift or to stay 15 minutes after shift without getting paid, or working 5-6 hour without a break, that stuff is still happening. If you have a problem with it, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

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Do you believe that when the shift starts the employee should be ready to start working? At their work station?

The first part is illegal unless you are refering to what Marvin S is talking about. An employee should be ready to start work at the time they are scheduled. Breaks are a state by state requirement. No one at my work takes a break at all throughout the day except lunch...we are too busy working.

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Originally Posted by Marvin S

Do you believe that when the shift starts the employee should be ready to start working? At their work station?

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I believe your pay should begin at the time you are required to be at work, so if you are told to be at work at 7pm or face reprimand then that is when your workday begins. We we're required to attend a shift briefing that took place 15 before shift began, add to that a series of security points that could add another 10 minutes to get to the time clock.

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Originally Posted by Cody Covey

The first part is illegal unless you are refering to what Marvin S is talking about. An employee should be ready to start work at the time they are scheduled. Breaks are a state by state requirement. No one at my work takes a break at all throughout the day except lunch...we are too busy working.

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Yes it was illegal, my point being it should take a $7 million dollar settlement (my employer), or a union to get a company to adhere to fair labor laws but often that is what it takes.