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Ok. So here is my question: Do you believe that how quickly/easily a dog goes through force fetch is an indicator for the future for a dog's training attitude or aptitude? If you do, have you had those exceptions? You know the dog that drags through force fetch and then it "clicks" further on and he/she flies through more advanced training? How did those exceptions turn out? (Titles, accomplishments etc)
FF is a conditioning process not just to teach the dog to pick something up...Some dogs come with a desire to get something in their mouth and are slow at learning more complex drills...An over all desire to work ( participate ) is what I look for...It is not a guarantee of the dogs ability to learn and master future drills, but a lot more pleasurable to work with though... Steve S
WRL you may be on to something. My 3yo was very easy to FF and very lovely to train.
My Cosmo pup 1 1/2 yo very difficult to FF. been through twice and is very difficult to work with and train. Can really try your patience. ML
So the answer to the question is?? Yes/No Maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by steve schreiner
I've ff'd a pile of dogs in the past couple years and i've had some real hard heads. Several in particular stand out in my mind though. I had a little female who was particularly hard to ff, EXTREMELY soft and NOT AT ALL driven but we managed to get her handling and running pattern blinds, and doing doubles...it just took 3 months longer than what we originally wanted. I had another yellow male who was VERY difficult to ftp..like 60 days worth but as soon as we finished, he turned on and man o man could he mark. Sadly, his owner took him home to hunt and hasn't done a thing since he has been gone. One black male I did several years ago took almost 70 days to ear-pinch, and 45 days to ftp. His owner was happy with him when he took him home as he was more than capable of taking the reigns from there and he is currently doing senior work. And lastly I still have a little female who was an absolute breeze to ff...60 days from hold to mini t, and 45 more to cold blinds however, that's when the road block happened. She had been doing doubles since she was in T work but just couldn't grasp the concept that there were 3 marks instead of 2!! She stalled on her blind work as well and though she would run them they were just VERY slow to improve...especially when running them between the marks. Thanks to a VERY understanding owner we decided she just needed time to mature and we agreed we would not give up on her. 1 year to the date of her receiving her HR title she got her 1st finished pass. She finished this past fall going 3 for 4 in Finished at 26 months. I have had 5 in the past couple years that absolutely breezed through the basics and never slowed down. 2 in particular, a black female and my chocolate male who both by 16 months were doing Finished/Master work and doing it extremely well. I guess what I am getting at is it depends on what your definition of "turned out" is. I much prefer those who grasp the concepts easily but, every now and then one of those "challenges" makes me proud. My latest "challenge" is a very well bred (FC AFC x MNH) 2 yr old female whom I didn't ff however, I know personally the man that did ff her. He is a very accomplished Amateur with Grand passes and a QAA dog to his credit, as well as several HRCH and MH titles. She just didn't seem to "get it" and appeared very low driven, soft, and disinterested. He brought her to me for several months and the "light bulb" turned on. Although I was very fair, I gave her no "slack" and her whole outlook changed. I am thoroughly convinced she was playing him. She is doing Finished/Master level work as a 27 month old now. So yes, I believe that FF can be an indicator of the dogs future training but in some cases, they're just not worth giving up on.
"It depends". I know a young dog trainer that used to (may still do it) wash dogs out on the force fetch table, stating he didn't like Fido's response to pressure. I thought this was pretty gutsy of him. At the age the dog is going through FF typically, ie: 6-8 months, they are just a mere glimpse into the mirror of who they are going to be when they grow up.... and there are so many facets of what determines the final outcome of the dog. maturity, socialization, environment, etc are play a part in it. I know many nice dogs that hated FF, hate the yard, but were great markers and never looked back. I work more on the belief, "show me the dog that enjoys FF, and I'll show you a dog that... "
Yup, you got it. :twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by WRL
Actually, the easiest dog I've ever force fetched, Chena River Wild Lady, breezed through ff. She wound up with 160ish all age points, I think.
No. Since they aren't machines, however, the answer can't be all one way or another. But, generally, 'no' because I've had many that didn't FF well, but trained well otherwise. I've had others that force fetched smoothly, but had significant issues in other areas; water, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRL
Evan
How well a dog performs during force fetch is not necessarily an indicator of future performance.
Gary Z., Pirate's owner, told me that Pirate was a little difficult to ff. And look how he turned out. So, I would say no.