Farm Bill

Rather than highjack the Milk thread, I thought I would start a new one...

http://www.croplife.com/article/2780...u-need-to-know

This is a good summary of the Farm Bill. It is a little dated but passed with most of these items in tact. One big item that affects hunters a reduction in the CRP programs and condensing the various programs into four. Lots of bird and other hunting is done on CRP land that would otherwise be unusable or in crops. I do not know how the effectiveness of federal government programs compare with private organizations like DU.

This summary does not explain the Milk subsidy.

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Originally Posted by Sabireley

Rather than highjack the Milk thread, I thought I would start a new one...

http://www.croplife.com/article/2780...u-need-to-know

This is a good summary of the Farm Bill. It is a little dated but passed with most of these items in tact. One big item that affects hunters a reduction in the CRP programs and condensing the various programs into four. Lots of bird and other hunting is done on CRP land that would otherwise be unusable or in crops. I do not know how the effectiveness of federal government programs compare with private organizations like DU.

This summary does not explain the Milk subsidy.

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Thank you so much for that link.

CRP-many aspects they got right with the program. Taking marginal or floodplain out of production, while allowing some income from said ground. Then like everything two agencies got into a pissing match in DC and the program has now become a paperwork nightmare, with stupid rules written by people who never leave their offices and wouldn't know a bluestem from a cow turd. And forget any actual common sense when it comes to managing for habitat..........

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Originally Posted by Pals

CRP-many aspects they got right with the program. Taking marginal or floodplain out of production, while allowing some income from said ground. Then like everything two agencies got into a pissing match in DC and the program has now become a paperwork nightmare, with stupid rules written by people who never leave their offices and wouldn't know a bluestem from a cow turd. And forget any actual common sense when it comes to managing for habitat..........

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I know that I have told this story many times before........

We had floods constantly undercutting the creek bank next to our carport. We needed to put more dirt back under and on the bank. We checked with the powers that be and found that we needed the okay from three government agencies in order to do this. Not sure if Agencies is the correct term but we did as we were told. One young man with college degrees etc. in this field came out and did his inspection. Enjoyed his visit .........
He said that his Dad ( a farmer ) hated the government programs etc. Then he said with a grin "here I am working for the government". :-)

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Originally Posted by Pals

CRP-many aspects they got right with the program. Taking marginal or floodplain out of production, while allowing some income from said ground. Then like everything two agencies got into a pissing match in DC and the program has now become a paperwork nightmare, with stupid rules written by people who never leave their offices and wouldn't know a bluestem from a cow turd. And forget any actual common sense when it comes to managing for habitat..........

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I could write a book about CRP. They got NOTHING right about it. You state that it removed marginal and floodplane land from production First, land considered marginal 20 years ago is no longer marginal given the changes and improvements in farming. Second, any idiot shold know that reules and regulations designed for say Colorado could not possibily be reasonable for Tennessee or Alabama, and that is exactly what we have. It only gives power to the gov. to violate their own rules. They rule of thumb here is to do what you want then plead ignorance and ask for forgiveness, my guess about the only way to deal with the gov.

Concerning floodplane land, let me give you a personal experience. My sister owns a farm that has a field of about 70 acres which my father at his own expense, many years ago, levied it for flood control. Today you can only do this if the gov. deams it to be proper. In the middle of the 70 acre field is about 1/20th of an acre that is about 6-12 inches lower than the rest of the field. It was classified as wetlands and put the field under wetland regulation. It took 4 years to get the Federal permits for what i wanted to do with the field, which included letting perfectly good land go idle as payment for allowing me just to widen the levees so that the larger equipment of today to maintain the levees. I politely told them to KMA. I then contacted DU and after a good deal of discussion, we had a plan That was bendficial to all. Du paid for culverts, gates and the dirtwork that allowed for water to be held in the field but controlled. We now hold water till the 1st of Mar. and i have seen as many as 5-10 thousand ducks there between Feb-March 1st. Erosion is controlled, habitat for ducks is greatly improved. and overall the farm is more productive agriculturely. My father bought that farm in the 1930's and when he died, it was a better farm than when he bought it. when my sister dies, it will be a better farm than when she got it.

5 years ago I bought a farm that was in 2 tracts which was in CRP. i paid between 1700-1800 per acre. On 1 tract which would have remained in CRP for another 10 years, I paid $18,000, which was all previous payments plus interest plus penalty just to get it out of CRP. The other tract would have cost me $60,000 to get it out so I chose to wait for the contract to expire which it did this year. Today, if I weere to put it up for sale at $4500.00/acre it would sell in a day. turned out as a really good deal for me but actually hurt the previous owner. Now I can improve the land. We have already burned the fields and sowed it in wheat. Every day it rains, I ride over it to look for problems that hav to be fixed to prevent soil erosion and to improve the farm. I can't wait to get started. I intend to leave the farm in better shape to my son when I die and am teaching him that he is to leave it in better shape to his kids when he dies. On another farm I show him what his great great grandfather did, what his grand father did and what I have done to improve it, and what I plan to do if i live long enough. I teach him to leave the land in better shape than when he got it. I will tell you that THE BIGGEST HENDRENCE TO THAT IS THE GOV.!!

As I said i could write a book on this issue. I will close with something I am extremely proud. Many farmers in the area have told me my father was decades ahead of other farmers when it came to soil conservation and caretaker of the land. I only hope that he would be proud of what i have done with the land I own.

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Originally Posted by caryalsobrook

I could write a book about CRP. They got NOTHING right about it. You state that it removed marginal and floodplane land from production First, land considered marginal 20 years ago is no longer marginal given the changes and improvements in farming. Second, any idiot shold know that reules and regulations designed for say Colorado could not possibily be reasonable for Tennessee or Alabama, and that is exactly what we have. It only gives power to the gov. to violate their own rules. They rule of thumb here is to do what you want then plead ignorance and ask for forgiveness, my guess about the only way to deal with the gov.

Concerning floodplane land, let me give you a personal experience. My sister owns a farm that has a field of about 70 acres which my father at his own expense, many years ago, levied it for flood control. Today you can only do this if the gov. deams it to be proper. In the middle of the 70 acre field is about 1/20th of an acre that is about 6-12 inches lower than the rest of the field. It was classified as wetlands and put the field under wetland regulation. It took 4 years to get the Federal permits for what i wanted to do with the field, which included letting perfectly good land go idle as payment for allowing me just to widen the levees so that the larger equipment of today to maintain the levees. I politely told them to KMA. I then contacted DU and after a good deal of discussion, we had a plan That was bendficial to all. Du paid for culverts, gates and the dirtwork that allowed for water to be held in the field but controlled. We now hold water till the 1st of Mar. and i have seen as many as 5-10 thousand ducks there between Feb-March 1st. Erosion is controlled, habitat for ducks is greatly improved. and overall the farm is more productive agriculturely. My father bought that farm in the 1930's and when he died, it was a better farm than when he bought it. when my sister dies, it will be a better farm than when she got it.

5 years ago I bought a farm that was in 2 tracts which was in CRP. i paid between 1700-1800 per acre. On 1 tract which would have remained in CRP for another 10 years, I paid $18,000, which was all previous payments plus interest plus penalty just to get it out of CRP. The other tract would have cost me $60,000 to get it out so I chose to wait for the contract to expire which it did this year. Today, if I weere to put it up for sale at $4500.00/acre it would sell in a day. turned out as a really good deal for me but actually hurt the previous owner. Now I can improve the land. We have already burned the fields and sowed it in wheat. Every day it rains, I ride over it to look for problems that hav to be fixed to prevent soil erosion and to improve the farm. I can't wait to get started. I intend to leave the farm in better shape to my son when I die and am teaching him that he is to leave it in better shape to his kids when he dies. On another farm I show him what his great great grandfather did, what his grand father did and what I have done to improve it, and what I plan to do if i live long enough. I teach him to leave the land in better shape than when he got it. I will tell you that THE BIGGEST HENDRENCE TO THAT IS THE GOV.!!

As I said i could write a book on this issue. I will close with something I am extremely proud. Many farmers in the area have told me my father was decades ahead of other farmers when it came to soil conservation and caretaker of the land. I only hope that he would be proud of what i have done with the land I own.

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Tell me something--Do YOU think YOU are the norm for farmers and landowners? If you were we would not need regulations and habitat groups now would we?? I've worked with farmers for over 20 years, I've been the habitat chairman for our local PF for since it started, I own several farms--all floodplain or timber. In the midwest the average farmer doesn't give a crap about habitat or wildlife, the average farm is owned by absentee landowners (either in proximity or brain power) who don't give a flip what their tenants are doing as long as they pay the cash rent. We have lost and continue to lose trees, wetlands and fencerows faster then you can even begin to imagine. Every week I see habitat being destroyed by landowners and farmers. So don't preach to me about your little corner of the world. Good for you. Good for me for putting wetlands back on my farm. GUESS WHAT!?--we are not the NORM. Those regulations and programs are a nightmare, I don't like them anymore than the next person. It makes my job of helping those that want help hell. Don't talk to me about marginal ground and abilities of farming these days. Marginal ground is still marginal ground, just because you dump 300.00/ac into it each year for 60bu/ac soybeans @ $15/bu or 180bu/ac corn @ $6/bu and then clap when you are not flooded out or push the water downstream faster making it your neighbors problem doesn't make it prime farmland. I could write a book too--and here is a newsflash--farmers are not knights in shining armor. Most of my farmers raise only corn and soybeans, most are good decent men and most don't give a crap about habitat because they are trying to make money and lets face it, for many corn and soybean farmers habitat means squat--the only habitat is CRP on the majority of farms around here. I've worked in some of the most rich productive prairie soils imaginable--we are talking 75 bu avg soybeans and 280+ bu corn AVERAGE--those farmers were some of the most cut throat individuals I've ever met, going to wakes to undercut their neighbors and get in good with the widow, $300+ cash rent and higher.....very common occurance. Bigger is better right?? 40' planters, 60' combine platforms I see them everyday--I also see the family farm slowly dying, livestock on pastures--almost gone. I busted my butt to get habitat back on those farms and it took me 15 years to make a dent. I jumped for joy with the quail border program and now its a nightmare because of DC. Now I'm in a county with MARGINAL ground and the farmers are much more receptive to habitat, they lease out their timber ground for hunting, they strip till their crappy timber soil, they let their FLOODPLAINS flood and they are very proactive with gully erosion and fixing problems. AND still every week someone is tearing out trees and straightening creeks/ditches. Thats the reality here in Illinois. If everyone treated their land like I do or you, the rivers wouldn't be a nightmare, soil erosion would be sustainable and wildlife of all types would be flourishing.

I do everything I can to help my farmers, many came to my wedding, many still call me for help even though I no longer work in their counties, I know what it is like to be a landowner who worries about the mortage, I know the frustrations of my landowners. For the most part I would not trade my farmers for anything but there are times.....

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Originally Posted by Pals

Tell me something--Do YOU think YOU are the norm for farmers and landowners? If you were we would not need regulations and habitat groups now would we?? I've worked with farmers for over 20 years, I've been the habitat chairman for our local PF for since it started, I own several farms--all floodplain or timber. In the midwest the average farmer doesn't give a crap about habitat or wildlife, the average farm is owned by absentee landowners (either in proximity or brain power) who don't give a flip what their tenants are doing as long as they pay the cash rent. We have lost and continue to lose trees, wetlands and fencerows faster then you can even begin to imagine. Every week I see habitat being destroyed by landowners and farmers. So don't preach to me about your little corner of the world. Good for you. Good for me for putting wetlands back on my farm. GUESS WHAT!?--we are not the NORM. Those regulations and programs are a nightmare, I don't like them anymore than the next person. It makes my job of helping those that want help hell. Don't talk to me about marginal ground and abilities of farming these days. Marginal ground is still marginal ground, just because you dump 300.00/ac into it each year for 60bu/ac soybeans @ $15/bu or 180bu/ac corn @ $6/bu and then clap when you are not flooded out or push the water downstream faster making it your neighbors problem doesn't make it prime farmland. I could write a book too--and here is a newsflash--farmers are not knights in shining armor. Most of my farmers raise only corn and soybeans, most are good decent men and most don't give a crap about habitat because they are trying to make money and lets face it, for many corn and soybean farmers habitat means squat--the only habitat is CRP on the majority of farms around here. I've worked in some of the most rich productive prairie soils imaginable--we are talking 75 bu avg soybeans and 280+ bu corn AVERAGE--those farmers were some of the most cut throat individuals I've ever met, going to wakes to undercut their neighbors and get in good with the widow, $300+ cash rent and higher.....very common occurance. Bigger is better right?? 40' planters, 60' combine platforms I see them everyday--I also see the family farm slowly dying, livestock on pastures--almost gone. I busted my butt to get habitat back on those farms and it took me 15 years to make a dent. I jumped for joy with the quail border program and now its a nightmare because of DC. Now I'm in a county with MARGINAL ground and the farmers are much more receptive to habitat, they lease out their timber ground for hunting, they strip till their crappy timber soil, they let their FLOODPLAINS flood and they are very proactive with gully erosion and fixing problems. AND still every week someone is tearing out trees and straightening creeks/ditches. Thats the reality here in Illinois. If everyone treated their land like I do or you, the rivers wouldn't be a nightmare, soil erosion would be sustainable and wildlife of all types would be flourishing.

I do everything I can to help my farmers, many came to my wedding, many still call me for help even though I no longer work in their counties, I know what it is like to be a landowner who worries about the mortage, I know the frustrations of my landowners. For the most part I would not trade my farmers for anything but there are times.....

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First let me say that I am sure some of my ideas as to improving MY land are those you would be opposed to. Some we would agree. When you use the term "my farmers", are you referring to those that YOU agree with, and those "crappy farmers" those you dissagree with? No system will ever be perfect. As to "familyfarmers", today I have no idea what that is. The man who farms my land farms about 8000 acres, has probably 8-10 million in equipment and probably makes less than $150,000 on a good year. He owns only a small amount of the land he farms. Is he a family farmer? He has a trackhoe, dozier, dirtpan, and a backhoe. I'm sure you know what these are for. As for the farmers in my area, those are the same ones that tell me my father was decades ahead of the times. I have habitat on my farms. The biggest problem is with the 4-wheeler riders and hunters who think they are stakeholders because they eat food and wear clothes? Hunters have to understand that if they want habitat and hunt, THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
One reason I like to drive is because I love to see the country. Obviously your area is quite different than mine. This area is highly erodable. The farm I now sit on in my camper is quite unique. You could take a dirtpan and remove 4 feet of soil, lime for ph and plant it that year with no problem. Organic material has been measured at 70 feet deep. Long story as to why. Makes it facinating as how to manage it. You mention ditches. In the 50's Gov. came in and cleaned the ditch next to this farm causing erosion that I am still to this day trying to deal with. Probably total of $80,000 in the last 5 years. He had a fit when they did that. They even tried concreate bags to stop the erosion but the water tossed them around like ping pong balls. I', sure we would argue about what I do but it would be friendly so long as you were not a dictator for which I had no choice. that is the problem I have with the gov. I have learned to keep my mouth shut when talking to the soil conservation ag. dept and try to be smarter than them. Along with my farmer we have been fairly successful.

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Originally Posted by Pals

Tell me something--Do YOU think YOU are the norm for farmers and landowners? If you were we would not need regulations and habitat groups now would we?? I've worked with farmers for over 20 years, I've been the habitat chairman for our local PF for since it started, I own several farms--all floodplain or timber. In the midwest the average farmer doesn't give a crap about habitat or wildlife, the average farm is owned by absentee landowners (either in proximity or brain power) who don't give a flip what their tenants are doing as long as they pay the cash rent. We have lost and continue to lose trees, wetlands and fencerows faster then you can even begin to imagine. Every week I see habitat being destroyed by landowners and farmers. So don't preach to me about your little corner of the world. Good for you. Good for me for putting wetlands back on my farm. GUESS WHAT!?--we are not the NORM. Those regulations and programs are a nightmare, I don't like them anymore than the next person. It makes my job of helping those that want help hell. Don't talk to me about marginal ground and abilities of farming these days. Marginal ground is still marginal ground, just because you dump 300.00/ac into it each year for 60bu/ac soybeans @ $15/bu or 180bu/ac corn @ $6/bu and then clap when you are not flooded out or push the water downstream faster making it your neighbors problem doesn't make it prime farmland. I could write a book too--and here is a newsflash--farmers are not knights in shining armor. Most of my farmers raise only corn and soybeans, most are good decent men and most don't give a crap about habitat because they are trying to make money and lets face it, for many corn and soybean farmers habitat means squat--the only habitat is CRP on the majority of farms around here. I've worked in some of the most rich productive prairie soils imaginable--we are talking 75 bu avg soybeans and 280+ bu corn AVERAGE--those farmers were some of the most cut throat individuals I've ever met, going to wakes to undercut their neighbors and get in good with the widow, $300+ cash rent and higher.....very common occurance. Bigger is better right?? 40' planters, 60' combine platforms I see them everyday--I also see the family farm slowly dying, livestock on pastures--almost gone. I busted my butt to get habitat back on those farms and it took me 15 years to make a dent. I jumped for joy with the quail border program and now its a nightmare because of DC. Now I'm in a county with MARGINAL ground and the farmers are much more receptive to habitat, they lease out their timber ground for hunting, they strip till their crappy timber soil, they let their FLOODPLAINS flood and they are very proactive with gully erosion and fixing problems. AND still every week someone is tearing out trees and straightening creeks/ditches. Thats the reality here in Illinois. If everyone treated their land like I do or you, the rivers wouldn't be a nightmare, soil erosion would be sustainable and wildlife of all types would be flourishing.

I do everything I can to help my farmers, many came to my wedding, many still call me for help even though I no longer work in their counties, I know what it is like to be a landowner who worries about the mortage, I know the frustrations of my landowners. For the most part I would not trade my farmers for anything but there are times.....

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Most hunters are unwilling to spend $20k-60K on marginal cropland and let it set idle for habitat, yet if a farmer is unwilling to let his $60k cropland set idle he doesn't give a crap about habitat, funny stuff......... Maybe a hunting licenses should only be issued to those who give a dam about habitat and are willing to drop $20k on idle land.

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Originally Posted by mngundog

Most hunters are unwilling to spend $20k-60K on marginal cropland and let it set idle for habitat, yet if a farmer is unwilling to let his $60k cropland set idle he doesn't give a crap about habitat, funny stuff......... Maybe a hunting licenses should only be issued to those who give a dam about habitat and are willing to drop $20k on idle land.

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When hunters realize that habitat is an asset and are willing to pay for it(I am happy to say that most are), then there will be habitat. If there was as strict laws to protect the owner as those to protect habitat and they were ENFORCED then there would be habitat. I do have habitat for deer, turkey, and ducks ect. and you can't imagine the problems I have with poachers, 4-wheelers, and those who dump garbage on the farm. Try to get action even if you catch them. Good luck.

My farmers: All that I work with. I don't get to pick and choose, nor would I. I may not agree with what they do with their land--but so what--its their land. Do you know how many evening phone calls I take about guys trying to work on drainage issues?? Not everyone in an Ag office is a prick or power hungry jerk. And yes most corn/soybean farmers in the fabulous prairie soils don't give a crap about habitat. I can count on one hand maybe two the farmers that came to the PF or DU banquets, even though they will happily take the money offered by those groups.
Harsh?! Too bad. It is what it is.

As an edit: tresspassers suck. I deal with them all the time. Makes me crazy. Most don't own land and think its their RIGHT to go where ever they want.