Farm Bill

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Originally Posted by Pals

My farmers: All that I work with. I don't get to pick and choose, nor would I. I may not agree with what they do with their land--but so what--its their land. Do you know how many evening phone calls I take about guys trying to work on drainage issues?? Not everyone in an Ag office is a prick or power hungry jerk. And yes most corn/soybean farmers in the fabulous prairie soils don't give a crap about habitat. I can count on one hand maybe two the farmers that came to the PF or DU banquets, even though they will happily take the money offered by those groups.
Harsh?! Too bad. It is what it is.

As an edit: tresspassers suck. I deal with them all the time. Makes me crazy. Most don't own land and think its their RIGHT to go where ever they want.

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I didn't want to make assumptions but it does appear that you work or have worked in gov. soil conservation. First of in any field there are good people to work with and bad. that goes for farmers and gov. soilconservationists.

If you are(were) in soil conservation let me ask you a question. Maybe you can help me in approaching them here. 3 years ago we did a project that cost me about 1/4 and gov about 3/4. Had I done it alone it prob would have cost me about half. As you know 100% has to be done as the gov. says, with it paying a portion and me paying a portion. They designed it and that was the way that it had to be done. Well now due to the design, it has failed. Am I responsible for fixing it now at my expense even though it had to be done their way or will the gov pay the cost of fixing it. How would you approach it if you were me. Your ideas would be appreciated since I will have to do something soon to stop the erosion that is now taking place.

PS
On the very creek that they cleaned the trees off of in the 1950's

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Originally Posted by Pals

My farmers: All that I work with. I don't get to pick and choose, nor would I. I may not agree with what they do with their land--but so what--its their land. Do you know how many evening phone calls I take about guys trying to work on drainage issues?? Not everyone in an Ag office is a prick or power hungry jerk. And yes most corn/soybean farmers in the fabulous prairie soils don't give a crap about habitat. I can count on one hand maybe two the farmers that came to the PF or DU banquets, even though they will happily take the money offered by those groups.
Harsh?! Too bad. It is what it is.

As an edit: tresspassers suck. I deal with them all the time. Makes me crazy. Most don't own land and think its their RIGHT to go where ever they want.

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As witnessed by the numerous slews being burned in SD this fall with the idea of getting one crop in so the crop insurance program can be scamed the following year when the drought ends. Should be a minimum of 5 consecutive years or more of being able to produce on ground before you can claim crop failure.

Food Stamps are not the only Program being scamed Regards

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Originally Posted by Golddogs

As witnessed by the numerous slews being burned in SD this fall with the idea of getting one crop in so the crop insurance program can be scamed the following year when the drought ends. Should be a minimum of 5 consecutive years or more of being able to produce on ground before you can claim crop failure.

Food Stamps are not the only Program being scamed Regards

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That is why I HAVE NO CROP INSURANCE. I don't want to argue whether I have a legitimate claim or one of the scam artists. I take my chances and live with it.
There hasn't been a gov. program that has not been scamed. Just take a look at all the lawyer ads on TV.;) Get rid of such programs and you get rid of the scam artists. Those that want insurance can go to the privat sector and pay a market price for it.

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Originally Posted by caryalsobrook

I didn't want to make assumptions but it does appear that you work or have worked in gov. soil conservation. First of in any field there are good people to work with and bad. that goes for farmers and gov. soilconservationists.

If you are(were) in soil conservation let me ask you a question. Maybe you can help me in approaching them here. 3 years ago we did a project that cost me about 1/4 and gov about 3/4. Had I done it alone it prob would have cost me about half. As you know 100% has to be done as the gov. says, with it paying a portion and me paying a portion. They designed it and that was the way that it had to be done. Well now due to the design, it has failed. Am I responsible for fixing it now at my expense even though it had to be done their way or will the gov pay the cost of fixing it. How would you approach it if you were me. Your ideas would be appreciated since I will have to do something soon to stop the erosion that is now taking place.

PS
On the very creek that they cleaned the trees off of in the 1950's

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EQIP, CRP or WRP? Yes-- it has to meet standard and specs(and most of the time these are in line with PE standards, they are ok, most of the time)....sigh....anyway it failed. Here is where you have more options then you think--those standards? It had to be signed off on as meeting those standards and specs after it was built in order for you to have received your cost share payment, it has to last at least 10 years, so you have a leg to stand on without getting into a pissing match. First take pictures, document exactly when and why it failed. Also document your Operation and maintainence--cleaned out in front, checked to make sure no animals were in berm, mowed berm, etc.... (without seeing the project--could be a major rain event?--all projects are designed for ___year storm events, toad stranglers are my worst nightmare!) Next call the office and schedule an appointment with the DC. Bring all your supporting documentation and ask what can be done to fix this and bring it back to standards and specs. Do you see where I'm going here? :cool: You can PM some pictures and details and I can walk you through what to do. The political climate being what it is--conservation is going to be bad. We are bracing for it, and in some regards I'm looking forward to going back to the planning of old, where I can spend precious time with MY FARMERS :) and find out what they want to fix or make better. And then do it! Without playing program games.

I need more details but did they fix a head cut coming from the creek out into the field? Yes--taking out trees and straightening ditches--ranks right up there with Bush Honeysuckle, Multi-flora Rose and Autumn Olive. BRILLIANT!!! Hind sight is a wonderful thing....

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Originally Posted by Pals

EQIP, CRP or WRP? Yes-- it has to meet standard and specs(and most of the time these are in line with PE standards, they are ok, most of the time)....sigh....anyway it failed. Here is where you have more options then you think--those standards? It had to be signed off on as meeting those standards and specs after it was built in order for you to have received your cost share payment, it has to last at least 10 years, so you have a leg to stand on without getting into a pissing match. First take pictures, document exactly when and why it failed. Also document your Operation and maintainence--cleaned out in front, checked to make sure no animals were in berm, mowed berm, etc.... (without seeing the project--could be a major rain event?--all projects are designed for ___year storm events, toad stranglers are my worst nightmare!) Next call the office and schedule an appointment with the DC. Bring all your supporting documentation and ask what can be done to fix this and bring it back to standards and specs. Do you see where I'm going here? :cool: You can PM some pictures and details and I can walk you through what to do. The political climate being what it is--conservation is going to be bad. We are bracing for it, and in some regards I'm looking forward to going back to the planning of old, where I can spend precious time with MY FARMERS :) and find out what they want to fix or make better. And then do it! Without playing program games.

I need more details but did they fix a head cut coming from the creek out into the field? Yes--taking out trees and straightening ditches--ranks right up there with Bush Honeysuckle, Multi-flora Rose and Autumn Olive. BRILLIANT!!! Hind sight is a wonderful thing....

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I hate this laptop. Not home so all I have. Screw up constantly with this mouse. I do have a camcorder here and can get pics easily but will have hard time getting them to you. Many errands with pups that have to be delivered, one flying to Oregon friday but will get back to you later. My PM's explains me better so will go from there and thanks much for your interest.:D

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Originally Posted by mngundog

Most hunters are unwilling to spend $20k-60K on marginal cropland and let it set idle for habitat, yet if a farmer is unwilling to let his $60k cropland set idle he doesn't give a crap about habitat, funny stuff......... Maybe a hunting licenses should only be issued to those who give a dam about habitat and are willing to drop $20k on idle land.

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Thank God I live in New England!

While I don't have the exclusive rights to any of them, I have my pick of 7 dairy farms to hunt on any given day. I gained permission to hunt them over the years by simply asking for it and pledging to treat the land as though it was my own. A handshake was "the Document".

It was exactly the same when I made a trip to prairie Canada. A polite request and a handshake went a long way up there, too.

$20,000 is over 25% of my income before taxes. No way I, or anyone I hunt with could pay that! -Paul

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Originally Posted by paul young

Thank God I live in New England!

While I don't have the exclusive rights to any of them, I have my pick of 7 dairy farms to hunt on any given day. I gained permission to hunt them over the years by simply asking for it and pledging to treat the land as though it was my own. A handshake was "the Document".

It was exactly the same when I made a trip to prairie Canada. A polite request and a handshake went a long way up there, too.

$20,000 is over 25% of my income before taxes. No way I, or anyone I hunt with could pay that! -Paul

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Paul, its was sarcasm, I have permission to hunt about 20 places within 30 miles of my own place, all owned my evil farmers who don't give a rip about habitat. I was merely saying that it isn't evil to farm tillable soil and those although there are many that will rip farmers for farming practices very few would do things differently is they were in there shoes. There is no way I could spend $20k to let land sit idle, the same goes for farmers.

Dear MNGUNDOG--

I never said they were evil, your words not mine. Nice by the way. You deal with what 10 farmers? Good for you that they have diverse properties and allow hunting. I have dealt with 100's of landowners and farmers in Central Illinois. Ever been to Central Illinois--try the Champaign area and there abouts. Do you have any idea what the average farm size is? Oh well gee...its huge. and Flat. and about as diverse as a table top. Out of those hundreds of folks I've worked with the average landowner/farmer cares about the bottom line. That is their business. I don't fault them at all for that. I'm stating a fact. Bottom line they care about making a profit or they are out of business, so guess what--the majority don't put habitat high on their priority list. There is that nicer? If there was no CRP there would be almost ZIPPO habitat left in this area. The majority would not put in habitat to just do it, not at todays prices. And we've had several guys pulling CRP out of production to capitalize on the prices--how nice is that??!! Besides some wooded draws, we have ditches and creeks. Nice stretch from Rt. 16 north to I-80--one of the most boring drives anywhere and some of the best farm ground in the world. If there was no CRP how many landowners are going to just leave habitat that can be farmed anywhere across the US?

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Originally Posted by Pals

Dear MNGUNDOG--

I never said they were evil, your words not mine. Nice by the way. You deal with what 10 farmers? Good for you that they have diverse properties and allow hunting. I have dealt with 100's of landowners and farmers in Central Illinois. Ever been to Central Illinois--try the Champaign area and there abouts. Do you have any idea what the average farm size is? Oh well gee...its huge. and Flat. and about as diverse as a table top. Out of those hundreds of folks I've worked with the average landowner/farmer cares about the bottom line. That is their business. I don't fault them at all for that. I'm stating a fact. Bottom line they care about making a profit or they are out of business, so guess what--the majority don't put habitat high on their priority list. There is that nicer? If there was no CRP there would be almost ZIPPO habitat left in this area. The majority would not put in habitat to just do it, not at todays prices. And we've had several guys pulling CRP out of production to capitalize on the prices-how nice is that??!! Besides some wooded draws, we have ditches and creeks. Nice stretch from Rt. 16 north to I-80--one of the most boring drives anywhere and some of the best farm ground in the world. If there was no CRP how many landowners are going to just leave habitat that can be farmed anywhere across the US?

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Now that sounds better, the fact is farmers put tillable land into CRP because it payed essentially what they would have made if it were in production, now that is not the case. So while most farmers in my area care very much for habitat they must pull it out of the program, that land amount to thousands of dollars of lost income. The average hunter who cares dearly for habitat will not put habitat in just to do it, not a todays prices.

I recently began to believe that the upland and duck hunting out on the plains will be but a memory in my lifetime. The shelter belts are being torn out and burned. The sloughs are being burned and tiled & drained. The result is a pheasant population that is dropping at an alarming rate. In my area of South Dakota now, if you have a damn nice dog and the energy to walk all day long you might be lucky enough to get a few birds. I recently stepped into a couple of sloughs just before sunset that the birds used to just boil out of by the hundreds. With two good dogs I didn't see a single pheasant flush. Locals who have hunted here for over 40 years tell me that the pheasant population is smaller than they have seen in their lifetimes. Hunters I have talked to have stated that after coming her to hunt for years, they don't plan to come back. Many of my old favorite hunting spots have been pulled from the CRP program and are now used for corn and soybeans. Everywhere I drive, I see huge rolls of black plastic pipe laying about, ready to be dropped into a trench to drain yet another slough. On a recent sunny day, I went out for a drive in the country. In fields where I used to see dozens if not hundreds of birds scratching in the snow for corn, I say perhaps 2 or 3 here, a half dozen there. Here is a NYT story from today's paper.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/01/us...=0&ref=science

It's really sad. As the hunters disappear, so will our dog games. As the hunters disappear, the only one's interested in gun rights will be those who are scared of the criminals and the government.