e-collar a little confused.

Hi I'm a new member and have been reading the valuable info from this site since getting my first lab a couple months back.
Following the suggestions from this site I purchased the Hillman pup DVD and I also enrolled and watched several videos from the waterdogtv e clinics. My pup is now 6 months old and is coming along great with retrieving and obedience. I haven't started e-collar due to i'm a little confused in that I've watched traffic cop and Hillman nicks after the pup has learned the command and has given the command. My pup has learned sit real well, and I want to continue to enforce it with the ecollar for training later at a distance. Would I start to condition the pup by saying sit and after she is sitting then nick or do I say sit and then nick before she is sitting? Would the same concept apply to here/come. What has me confused is that Hillman in teaching the e-collar fetch---- teaches the fetch process then says fetch - nick before the dog grabs the dummy. So in sitting would you Nick before the dog sits? Thanks for the great site and knowledgeable members...

I am not an expert at anything.

What I have been taught is that with the sit command for example, the sequence is sit-nick- sit. The nick is to increase the reliability and speed of response to the command. You really should get books/video of a complete program and follow it. Good luck with your dog.

No expert either, but if you can't get anyone to help that knows how, I would suggest getting the Lardy collar conditioning video.

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Originally Posted by John Lash

No expert either, but if you can't get anyone to help that knows how, I would suggest getting the Lardy collar conditioning video.

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Good advice here. Be sure you give the commands and the dog understands before you use the collar! Lardy's CC DVD explains it well.

Be patient, someone will help. I used it but it has been too long, I am not sure I remember the details.

Don't confuse the process of conditioning the dog to respond to collar pressure, with the application of collar pressure to enforce a command.

The real question is, can you enforce sit with a lead and choke chain?

If you can, then use the same timing with e-collar, that you do with the choke chain. Exactly the same.
If the dog responds "wrong" following the collar pressure, be ready and immediately enforce the command using pressure that the dog knows. IE, the choke chain.

Through repetition of that sequence, the e-collar comes to mean the same thing as the choke chain.

However, if you can't enforce sit with a choke chain, you better get that FIRST, before you start applying electricity.
And you had better be able enforce FETCH with the e-collar, before you start using it for enforcing anything in the field.

I'm not totally comfortable answering your question, I'm not sure what you are really asking, but here goes...

From my notes and memory (and what I think you are asking):

In the Hillman video, Day 12, pup is sitting when the "sit-nick-sit" sequence is given. So pup is already sitting when it gets the ecollar nick.

For fetch, you give the nick from the ecollar as pup is reaching for the bumper after telling it "fetch." You need to be clear to pup that he is not getting nicked for grabbing the bumper or for having the bumper in the mouth.

This is something like a 2 month process---pup gets collar conditioned to sit and here, and much later, after it understands the ecollar, it is used to reinforce the "fetch" command.

I hope this helps, my pup is 2 yrs old now so the memory is not good. If you search the archives you will find lots of discussion about the method.

For the collar to be used as a reinforcement tool the pressure comes after or during the act of compliance to the command... not before...Steve S

Thanks for all of the replys. The pup has been trained to sit and understands the command which she does it well most of the time. I had been following hillmans recommendations and was confused on after the command was learned when the nick was used on the e-collar. I have read additional books and see where alot of trainers recommend applying constant e-collar to the dog until the command is carried out. I watched the hillman ecollar force fetch just to get acquainted in his technique and it appeared he taught the command and then nicked before the dog touched the dummy. It appears Hillman teaches the command and then nicks after the dog is sitting in traffic cop. My pup understands the sit command, would it be correct in after she sits give the nick? She sits really well as in traffic cop without the e-collar, and she is really progressing to understanding hand signals for retrieves - left, right and back handsignals. My intention is to get her to stop at a distance and sit to take a handsignal. I don't want to progress to a distance and commanding sit, for fear she wont respond and that would be another issue. Would I be correct then as suggested, in commanding sit and then after she is sitting giving a nick or give the nick and then use the choke chain to enforce compliance? Maybe I'm misunderstood in thinking that Hillman teaches the command and then uses the nick after the compliance to further the learning. Would I be better served buying Hillmans DVD about using the e-collar or is this whole technique basically using the nick?

You are not ready to be stopping the dog, and casting it while enroute to a bumper or bird.
Even after you are done with CC and FF you STILL won't be ready to be stopping the dog when it is trying to retrieve something.

You need to get on a handling program, that progresses beyond Hillman's.