It's hard not to be a conspiritorial thinker, when this sort of story happens.

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Originally Posted by paul young

Have any of you stopped to consider that DHS uses roughly 2.5 millon rounds each time their agents re-qualify with their weapons ( I don't know how frequently they have to re-qualify, but I bet it's at least annually). They have about 230,000 agents.

Add to that the ammo necessary to qualify new employees and how much ammo is carried by agents in the field. -Paul

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230,000 Agents!!! Seriously!?? That's nearly as many people as we have commissioned officers in our entire armed forces or about equal to 16% the size of the armed forces!! Seems a bit extreme to me.

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Originally Posted by paul young

Have any of you stopped to consider that DHS uses roughly 2.5 millon rounds each time their agents re-qualify with their weapons ( I don't know how frequently they have to re-qualify, but I bet it's at least annually). They have about 230,000 agents.

Add to that the ammo necessary to qualify new employees and how much ammo is carried by agents in the field. -Paul

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I, too, am stunned by the # 230,000 for the # of agents ... that would be nearly 10% of the entire US population! And part of the overall population would be children under age 18 ... that seems like a very large number. If the # is correct, I have some reservations about Obama's idea of a "domestic army". Isn't that about 1/3 the size of our military? (I'm not sure of the #s in our full-time military). Might the 230,000 be the total # of employees of the agency? Maybe the # includes those that don't carry weapons ... like clerical & other administrative workers?

2.5 million rounds would mean about 11 rounds per agent for requalification. 2.5 million then seems like too little for requalification for that many people.

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Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy

I, too, am stunned by the # 230,000 for the # of agents ... that would be nearly 10% of the entire US population! And part of the overall population would be children under age 18 ... that seems like a very large number. If the # is correct, I have some reservations about Obama's idea of a "domestic army". Isn't that about 1/3 the size of our military? (I'm not sure of the #s in our full-time military). Might the 230,000 be the total # of employees of the agency? Maybe the # includes those that don't carry weapons ... like clerical & other administrative workers?

2.5 million rounds would mean about 11 rounds per agent for requalification. 2.5 million then seems like too little for requalification for that many people.

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Actually a little less than 1/10 of 1% (but still a large number)

Soooo....... I decided to look up how large the NYC police force is and it is about 34,500 members of the force. Get this though, there are 271,000 people on the city payroll in NYC!!! Wonder how many more "civil servants" there are if you include federal employees.

Are hollow points used for qualification now?

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Originally Posted by HPL

Actually a little less than 1/10 of 1% (but still a large number)

Oops ... sorry about that. Senior moment!

Soooo....... I decided to look up how large the NYC police force is and it is about 34,500 members of the force. Get this though, there are 271,000 people on the city payroll in NYC!!! Wonder how many more "civil servants" there are if you include federal employees.

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So, are the "armed" agents of DHS only about 10% of the actual employees? I think I got the decimal in the right place this time :-)

Eric makes a good point in whether one could use the cheapest form of ammo to "practice" with, and save the more expensive for actual use.

I think that there has been a figure reported somewhere about the # of govt-employees v. private sector. Maybe health care is not going to be the only commodity that will become single-payer?

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Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy

So, are the "armed" agents of DHS only about 10% of the actual employees? I think I got the decimal in the right place this time :-)

Eric makes a good point in whether one could use the cheapest form of ammo to "practice" with, and save the more expensive for actual use.

I think that there has been a figure reported somewhere about the # of govt-employees v. private sector. Maybe health care is not going to be the only commodity that will become single-payer?

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Where do you come up with the 230,000 agents being 10% of the work force? Whatever the number of employees or agents, 230,000 or 2.3 million, I see it as being too many by either 230,000 or 2.3 million employees or agents. What do they do besides tell us to duct tape our windows
with plastic, make videos telling us to defend ourselves against a gunmen with plastic scissors, or trying to scare us by telling us the danger level is being changed to orange or blue or yellow or some other undefined variable. There greatest skill IMHO is making other state and municipal govts cow-tow to their every whim and spend money like drunken sailors

Also when Im buying ammo, I can assure you hollow points aren't the cheapest. Not by a long shot{pardon the pun}

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4143753AAVvus1

I may have been off a little, but not much. You also need to add the United States Coast Guard to arrive at a final number.

The Coast guard alone would account for a huge number of small arms and ammunition for them.-Paul

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Originally Posted by mjh345

Where do you come up with the 230,000 agents being 10% of the work force? Whatever the number of employees or agents, 230,000 or 2.3 million, I see it as being too many by either 230,000 or 2.3 million employees or agents. What do they do besides tell us to duct tape our windows
with plastic, make videos telling us to defend ourselves against a gunmen with plastic scissors, or trying to scare us by telling us the danger level is being changed to orange or blue or yellow or some other undefined variable. There greatest skill IMHO is making other state and municipal govts cow-tow to their every whim and spend money like drunken sailors

Also when Im buying ammo, I can assure you hollow points aren't the cheapest. Not by a long shot{pardon the pun}

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Check out the link I provided. They do A LOT more than you seem to think they do.

But then again, it's a lot more fun to think the Gummints out to get you. - Paul

The JOINT SERVICES TRAINING COMBAT ARMS SURVEY was part of a master theisis to judge if the troops had a suffecient understanding of the role of the military in the United States.

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Originally Posted by Henlee

The JOINT SERVICES TRAINING COMBAT ARMS SURVEY was part of a master theisis to judge if the troops had a suffecient understanding of the role of the military in the United States.

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Here are two possible responses to your post:

1. So, what are the correct answers and how did the folks tested fair?

2. Sure, that's what they SAID it was for. Psst, by the way, I have a big orange colored bridge I'm willing to sell chaap.