Positive only?

I'm sure they are undoing any progress that they make with you.

Examples: Call the dog and then leash him up.
Call the dog to take something from him (typically dirty underwear)
Call the dog and then shout at him.
Call the dog and crate him.
Call the dog and cut his nails.

Some are happy, to a 'Place', rather than the 'person'?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvP-VAYZIbk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSt8lNTiwco

I do not know for sure, but this sounds a lot like puppy training. 12 to 24 weeks. First I would teach the puppy there name. once doing this, I then would call them and clap my hands. If they do not come right away I turn around and run, This triggers their drive to chase, I stop fast and catch them and praise. When they are coming on their name, I give them the object that I am going to use for puppy fetch ( I do not like to use small balls for my larger dog because they tend to roll and chew them. Which might cerate a problem latter) I do not take it from them, I let them kinda sorta present it, in their own way. We have already played the case game so if they run, I will be the case e not the chaser.

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion

Yikes, Darrin! I'd say if this is your exposure to mainly pos trainers, you have some poor examples. If the toy reward is causing an obstacle in the training, then they shouldn't use the toy as the reward! And stepping on the leash to catch the dog, just so they can use a toy as a reward also seems counter productive.

Sounds like you are in a difficult position! As you have intimated, the key to success is the foundation training and choosing the proper reward - so that it at the very least, doesn't interfere with the training!

GOOD LUCK!

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It's not the trainers per se Jen, but rather the nature of the program. It's all one big experiment and there are a lot of hands on these dogs. I'm volunteering so not my place to write the protocols, nor am I really qualified.

That's why I was putting some stuff out there to hear what some of the more +r oriented ppl here had to say.

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Originally Posted by gdgnyc

Another retrieve

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Yes, but not usually in the case of a dog that made a mistake in the field. You sure wouldn't call one in after a screw up and reward him for coming cause you might get lucky and make the screw up a habit!

Darrin what is the end goal?

If you are working on a handling drill are you using ground markers for the dog to target?

Im not sure I understand the question.

But I think positive only trainers will see that punishment in the way of using a check cord is acceptable if bdealing with an out of control dog. But I think there is another answer if I understand the issue better.

Darren after re reading the thread I am on board with you. If you are using an object reward and it is doing more harm than good in relation to time restraints to train the dog then you should go to a food reward instead. Is there any reason these folks are not wanting to move to a food reward?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion

.....Is the dog playing keep away with a retrieve object or with a reward object, in this scenario?

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ain't the fresh shot, still flapping, warm and bloody duck Muffy has in her teeth, one and the same?