Is this where we are headed?

I would look to the cdc for stats. The breakdown of % of abortions to live births by race would make this a racial issue also.

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Originally Posted by road kill

Of the 1,250,000+ abortions in 2012, does anyone know how many were due to rape, incest or the Mothers health being in danger??

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OK RK, I'll answer......less than 12% are due to rape, incest or Mothers health.

The other 88% are convenience abortions.

Nice choice!!!

I would think that % is over double what it really is on the high side.

While I cringe at the idea of late term abortions there are medical reasons to be able to do so. With abortions in general I do not like them, but I am not sure which is the greater evil. Children born into families who do not want them and cannot afford them? Adding to the stress of the welfare system and overpopulation? Repeating the vicious cycle?

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Originally Posted by GoldenSail

While I cringe at the idea of late term abortions there are medical reasons to be able to do so. With abortions in general I do not like them, but I am not sure which is the greater evil. Children born into families who do not want them and cannot afford them? Adding to the stress of the welfare system and overpopulation? Repeating the vicious cycle?

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not trying to single you out but IMO if we are going to condone abortion we may as well make infanticide legal too. when the babies are born to parents that get tired of them jsut killem......what age should we call it murder 2,3 4???? i personally see NO difference. it is all murder IMO...again this isnt directed to you personally just using your post to voice my opinion, thanks

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Originally Posted by GoldenSail

While I cringe at the idea of late term abortions there are medical reasons to be able to do so. With abortions in general I do not like them, but I am not sure which is the greater evil. Children born into families who do not want them and cannot afford them? Adding to the stress of the welfare system and overpopulation? Repeating the vicious cycle?

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If they are unwanted children, there is adoption; and many who want to adopt are financially able to support that child. So that is one option.

The really bad situation is when someone on welfare continues to have children simply to get more monthly income; much of which will not go to caring for those children. I'd give one accident, but after a 2nd, sterilization should be required. Tubal ligations and vasectomies are now possible to reverse ... but you'd have to get off welfare first.

There are surely costs involved with more children, but there are other aspects, too ... what price on a human life?

The other question might be, when abortion is readily available for "convenience" does it disincentivize attention to use of contraception? If so, is it costing more to pay for abortions than to pay for contraception? Yet contraception is inexpensive and readily available, so why is there a need for so many abortions?

With all the tax money we spend to study insignificant things, maybe someone ought to spend some of it usefully to find answers to some of these questions.

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Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy

If they are unwanted children, there is adoption; and many who want to adopt are financially able to support that child. So that is one option.

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It is not that easy! I have a friend who nearly lost her house adopting a child from a very abusive relationship. Dad was a druggie, mom was a stripper both were very young. The adoption agency assumed the dad would not fight for the kid...and they were wrong. I think of this child and how wonderful it is they got to keep him (they actually lost the case, but sperm donor changed his mind at the last minute but went on to have more kids that he kidnapped and used in child porn). He used to be hit and would duck as a child when they went to pick him up. Now that he is older they are seeing some behavioral problems that are likely genetic. He is lucky to have them, but if he hadn't been adopted...

I am also skeptical that the adoption pool could support that many births...Much better for a child to have never been born than to face a lifetime of abuse, poverty, drugs, etc. Only to grow-up and repeat the cycle.

But this is what bothers me about right wing conservatives--while they are strictly against abortion they don't want to deal with the consequences of that choice. They complain about making birth control more accessible and affordable and then they complain about the burden of the welfare system and not wanting to add to it. There are also many that are against education in school. It seems like they don't care a lick about that child once it is born--end point is that the agenda is met when the baby is born without concern to what environment that may be.

Yes you can talk about personal responsibility and yes I would agree with you but at the end of the day you cannot force people to be accountable and responsible. So what is the answer?

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Yes you can talk about personal responsibility and yes I would agree with you but at the end of the day you cannot force people to be accountable and responsible. So what is the answer?[/QUOTE]

No but you can freely give them all YOUR money and leave mine alone so that I can help save for my kids education.

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Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy

From the NY Times today

Cuomo Bucks Tide With Bill to Ease Abortion Limits

By THOMAS KAPLAN

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo is preparing legislation that would guarantee women in New York the right to late-term abortions, and remove the issue from the state's penal

How does one make a case for this? At what point does the Constitution start to step in for the rights of a human being that may be, or are, viable outside the womb?

If the life of the mother is not in danger, why not wait a few weeks longer and do a C-section?

Will the latter option cost us all money? I'd guess it would ... but if we can pay big-time taxes to save an endangered owl, crustacean or insect, what is a human life worth?

I just can't wrap my mind around a late-term abortion that is done for reasons of "convenience".

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I am not in favor of abortion. However I want my daughter's doctor some time in the future to have the option of doing what is best for her in the event a pregnancy goes bad. I don't think it is always as simple as, "just wait a few weeks and do a c-section." When my wife was pregnant she had some really strange things going on with her blood pressure. Thank God everything worked out and I have a kind, beautiful, and very smart 13 year old daughter today.

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Originally Posted by GoldenSail

It is not that easy! I have a friend who nearly lost her house adopting a child from a very abusive relationship. Dad was a druggie, mom was a stripper both were very young. The adoption agency assumed the dad would not fight for the kid...and they were wrong. I think of this child and how wonderful it is they got to keep him (they actually lost the case, but sperm donor changed his mind at the last minute but went on to have more kids that he kidnapped and used in child porn). He used to be hit and would duck as a child when they went to pick him up. Now that he is older they are seeing some behavioral problems that are likely genetic. He is lucky to have them, but if he hadn't been adopted...

I am also skeptical that the adoption pool could support that many births...

I don't have the stats to know the answer either, but we do know that many people who would like to adopt spend thousands of dollars to do so, and even then there are not always enough babies for these potential parents, so we are seeing adoptions of foreign-born children.


Much better for a child to have never been born than to face a lifetime of abuse, poverty, drugs, etc. Only to grow-up and repeat the cycle.

Unless we study the situation, we don't really know that the majority of these babies would be in situations you describe. If RK's stats are correct, many of them may not be.

But this is what bothers me about right wing conservatives--while they are strictly against abortion they don't want to deal with the consequences of that choice.


I'm not sure that is a true statement. As one example, Catholic Charities is a major resource for adoptions.

They complain about making birth control more accessible and affordable

While Roman Catholics have a religious position on contraception, I cannot think of any others. I don't think anyone on this forum has objected to contraception.

I would say that birth control is very accessible and very affordable: $7/mo for BC pills at Walmart; very cheap condoms; free condoms in NYC schools; free morning-after pills in NYC schools as well.


and then they complain about the burden of the welfare system and not wanting to add to it

Most who object to the welfare system burden are very much in favor of contraception to abate the unwanted pregnancies. Some even feel that mandatory sterilization would be just fine. Abortion is a different issue. And late-term abortion is possibly yet a different issue than the overall issue.



There are also many that are against education in school.

Some may disagree with how the subject matter is presented in public school curriculum, but I think most on this forum realize the necessity for providing the information.

It seems like they don't care a lick about that child once it is born--end point is that the agenda is met when the baby is born without concern to what environment that may be.

Painted with too broad a brush, I think.

Yes you can talk about personal responsibility and yes I would agree with you but at the end of the day you cannot force people to be accountable and responsible. So what is the answer?

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I do not have the answer, but I cannot imagine taking a newborn, breathing infant and placing it in a waste heap.

Buzz, you and I do NOT disagree. When there is a serious medical problem occurring with a pregnancy, then a medical doctor is in a much better position to make the judgment than any legislator or bureaucrat. There could be a reason for a late-term abortion, so any solution, should not rule them out entirely. OTOH, if a baby should survive, then we have a human life to deal with and our Constitution speaks to every life. If such a baby has a serious defect, at the very least it should be shown tenderness and respect, just as we would show to an elderly person who is living his last days of life.

Gerry