Nope, I think they're using it because they simply can, and they like to freak out handlers. And freak out handlers it does, the dogs don't really care. I threw an out of order Flyer mark on one of those 200+ yrd marks, and yes we used 2 range finders, and a wheel to measure the distance, after the test. (maybe Judges can't tell distance ;)) We only had 1 dog that came up short and didn't make it to the area of the fall, the dog had other issues. The mark was a pretty good hunt, as it was in heavy cover and falling into a ditch, but the dogs got out to it, stuck to the area and brought it back. We had many backside the guns, but the gun was completely hidden behind one bush of several, and pretty tough to pick out. We had 4-5 dogs nose-dwn stomp it.
Originally Posted by helencalif
The last 2 tests we've had in the area since the new rule came in; have had 1 or 2 marks skirting the distance barrier, seems like if you throw out a new rule people feel the need to use it. The only concern for me is handling a dog at such a distance, can cause problems, it's hard for a dog to pick out a handler who's in dark colors or camo, on a dark background, with a gallery of similar dressed people sitting watching. In FT where longer marks are the normal you can wear white, white is a No in HT. Seems unfair to grade handle on a dog that can't pick out it's handler.
You guys are right on the vote, the vote I'm thinking of was a distance change in HRC grand, I get them all confused
Side note everyone in HRC has a range finder, try to go beyond their distances and 4-5 people in the gallery will call you on it, and have the test thrown out as illegal, might hang the judge before the hunt-test committee gets there thou ;)
I Thumbs Up = Tellus Calhoun :) We set the marks at 150 because of the factors = none ...very little cover and rollings hills. Kind of a reverse hip pocket on both sides...if you looked at the bird placement you could figure out how to pick them up...Time management was not a issue as the extra yardage took less than a min to cover....time is lost rebirding and waiting for guns to be set...I get the guns up and ready before the working dog has reached the line...you save 1 to 2 min per dog...that means in a 60 dog field 1 to 2 hrs per series with just making sure guns are up rather than waithing till the working dog is back to the line....we do it as pro trainers when working lots of dog. I do not think the distance hurts it shows marking rather than just getting to an area that is close and rutting around and calling it a mark. But a good judge should be able to set up a test in a parking lot and get answers with or without distance...but sometimes distance is needed....I start judging when a dog and handler as a team get in trouble....I want to see how well they get out and handle the situation....
In fact, the only Master test that I've ever had to scrap, once we were running, had three marks that didn't total a 150 yards.
I'm certain this will sound a bit trite but...yards are what you make of them. Both blinds and marks have three characteristics...a beginning, a middle, and an end. If all a judge can do to try to test a dog is to stretch out the middle, in most cases I would say s/he doesn't have much imagination.
Three round the horn regards,
Doesn't sound trite. Toughest blind I've ever run was 55 yards. Big downhill lie right to left, with a culvert, nasty wind also pushing right to left, lose dog in cover if a bit off line or down the slope. Judges said if you aim high and let dog drift to it you're done. ;-)
Originally Posted by Eric Johnson
12 whistle 55 yards.
Seriously, if a handler is freaked out by a 150 yard mark or blind he really isn't prepared to run at the MH level.
Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp
I also don't understand the mentality of training strictly at HT distances. The only reason a dog would have difficulty beyond those distances is because a barrier has been created by the trainer who never stretches him out.
Agreed , have watched a number of "cookie cutter" tests that never challenge a dog or its training. Cookie cutter definition, example triple and a blind up the middle, long bird the go bird over and over and over again. If you run or repeat something enough it will become second nature in training and will transfer to a hunt test. I put a tooth under my pillow last night, didn't tell anyone and a five dollar bill was in the tooth's place this morning. Most dogs with decent eye sight, not trained for field trial marks can do 200 yard marks with ease trained at the Master level. It's the handlers that have the issues. Trained with a HRCH dog for a number of months, dog would not look past about 100 yards. The owner handler kept telling me the dog couldn't see marks beyond that level. This guy used to repeat everything a half dozen times in training. After about a month or so of running longer marks the dog was marking out to a easy 300 yards. This was a six year old dog who had a steady diet of shorter marks less then 100 yards all it's training life.
Originally Posted by rbr
I was always taught to train at a much higher level then hunt testing or trialing level. It used to amuse me at hunt tests, still does, at those who wring their hands at running blinds.If a dog can mark, ANY dog can be trained to run blinds. If they can't mark well, you can't teach em to mark but by gosh you can train them to do blinds. My thoughts just maybe instead of worrying about distance?
What about the dogs that can mark well, OR run really tough blinds?
Originally Posted by Criquetpas
But, they can't manage to do both in the same damn test!
That's what I have right now. And, I doubt that I'm alone.