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Please refer to post #53...Steve S

Going off grounds and forcing may work for a while but probably not a fix...dogs will get wise to this trick too...I know of a dog that wouldn't get out of the truck when it went to the woods...It...

I don't think we have been on that subject for some time ....The OP "If dog needs handling on way to mark, gun retired, does the dog learn anything about marking?" Steve S

"The question is whether dog should get reprimanded. If it is cheating, yes, if it is lost, no." Renee This is the question I was responding to....Key word is reprimanded....

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There is much discussion on judging lines instead of just the mark...a mark is a mark if the dog knows where it is going...Steve S

we read the intent as to beach early correctly, but we will not know if it is a cheat , lost ,giving to the wind or rtof unless we let the dog provide us with that info.....That is all I'm saying ..I...

How will you know if the dog is cheating or lost? Steve S

What you have said is very good logic...I agree on the training you have described ...I assume you would recommend to the OP that they handle on the cover cheat...Correct ? My question is then did...

Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
I believe that handling on a mark does none thing but teaching the dog the line...It teaches the correct way or route to the fall... Precisely,...

I believe that handling on a mark does none thing but teaching the dog the line...It teaches the correct way or route to the fall...If you handle on a mark ,you never for sure if the dog would have...

I like this response...If the dog is avoiding cover ( factor) ,forget the mark and deal with the issue at hand...Work on retired gun with out factor to see if dog can remember mark until dog has...

You are right about that ...Most will back off the pressure when it is being applied manually before the dog shuts down ...But ,when using the collar it is too easy to push that button vs swing that...

Now I'm really lost...I don't recall anything about a bark collar...Or and I just slow on the down load..? When it come to dogs learning how to operate in their environment they natural repeat things...

Since I didn't see the deleted post ,here is my comment ...If in doubt to use pressure or attrition ...use attrition ...first and usually several more times before resorting to pressure...If the dog...

And you missed my point ...OR ,I didn't communicate it clearly enough ...No matter how many books or video's you watch , you still have to get out there and do the work ...Books and video's are...

Even I can understand that statement and it makes sense too....Steve S

Very true...some times inadvertently caused ...Steve S

Very bold statement Evan.

And there are hundreds of bad examples. Just look at the forum and you'll see question after question of folks not understanding how to train from books and dvds...

After reading all these post and trying to follow the reasoning behind them I have come to the conclusion that most if not all are recommending some form of indirect pressure or direct in solving the...

I have seen an evolution of the test develop from over the early 80's and they have change a lot...How many retired guns did you see back then ..? What is the norm in the open now..? At one time a...

Nonething special ...Dogs learn the routine of people in their environment...They can distinguish between sounds of car or trucks from inside the house too...we should be as observant of things...

Not to try and discredit Corky but an open of that era in time wouldn't make a good Q today....I ran Q's in the early 80's that Sr hunt test dogs of today are doing longer tougher marks and...

This is a red flag for sure....Too many sits on the return ....As Darrin recommended, call her all the way in and give the sit whistle as in a front sit...a lot closer to you....Dropping the bumper...

I recommend having warm water ,small dog and be very careful....use counter weight like the Hawaiian's do on their canoes.....Steve S

Don't do this then ...I totally agree with PennyRetrieves...I have been using an e collar since the 70's and will never go back...If outlawed I'll quit training ..The control at a distance and...