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If you're trying to set up your case that there is no such thing as "all positive training," there's no need. I agree with you. In the strictest definition, you're absolutely right

But it's also...

I'm certainly no expert, nor would I ever want to limit myself and my dog by using all-positive training. But I do have some second-hand experience with something that I'd think would provide some...

So now Milner's dogs "mediocre"? Why--exactly--do you say that?

I thought it was the man and the message you all didn't like....

Mine did! :)

But seriously, I don't assume that...or anything else in the retriever training/breeding universe for that matter, given my newbieness.

I'm just (futily) trying to point out that...

"CalmER"

"SoftER"

I must have missed the part where Milner said his dogs/methods were better for producing FT/HT contenders......oh wait--he NEVER said that!!

That's right--he just said (albeit snobbily and...

So, what's the danger to the "uneducated" public?? That they get a dog that won't have the drive needed to compete in hunt tests/field trials?

It's funny how one's perspective and vested interests...

Don't you think posting this kind of stuff over and over and over again is...um...stupid?

Who cares???

Do you like your Lab, regardless of if it was bred in America, Canada, the UK, or...

All great, vaild points about the "what program are you using" responses. You are absolutely right.

But again, I think it's a symptom of the what I already mentioned: The wide difference in...

As I said to Pete a little while ago, I've happily back-pedalled on the meat dog forum idea because who really needs a forum for such simple questions, answers and goals. And like you said, this is a...

Well Rainmaker may think you nailed it, but I don't know what you're even driving at....:confused:

I'm guessing you might be saying that the problem with a forum for casual meat dog hunters is...

I hear you. But again, I think you might not realize how elite or advanced you really are (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing). I mean, for an example, all my in-laws who've hunted ducks hard...

Well, no. At least not me. And I think your answer (which I certainly respect and admire), clearly illustrates the disconnect I mentioned.

I never played hockey so I'll use my baseball "career."...

I voted other.

Reason being, is that the new subforum that I think is actually needed (and would minimize some of the newbie backlash you all mention) is a "Practical Meat Dog" forum.

Please...

Your logic is as sound as your spelling.

Wow. I just got back to a computer after being out of town for several days, and am surprised to see what’s blown up on here since I’ve been gone.

As I said in my original post, I HONESTLY did not...

From what little I know (and it's not much, so take this for what it's worth), I'd tend to agree.

But that doesn't mean you should shy away from a British litter, does it?

I suppose this thread is doomed to stir the pot, but that’s not my intent. Really!

I was just reading the “British/Irish breeders” thread and it got me wondering something….

If you’re one of...

I'm having a hard time understanding what's what on that site, but it would appear that of the sire, dam, their parents, their grandparents and all of their documented full siblings (which is not the...

Well, I checked all of the pedigree history on the site you mentioned (it was very helpful and easy-to-use, by the way) for the litter I'm considering.

To make a long story short, it looks like...

I know this is a little off the OP, but after just losing a dog at age 3, I can attest to one other aspect of the inside/outside issue:

Whether they live to age 3 or 13, your time with your dog is...

This kinda goes with my separate post about choosing a litter.

I have to admit total ignorance when it comes to what all the ratings and acronyms mean. And while I'm admitting, I should confess...

Thanks for the advice, you brought up some great points that I haven't considered such as the sire's age and post-labor, post-nursing condition of the dam.

But I think you may have misunderstood...

Well, my wife and I didn't make it long since our dog's untimely death on Jan. 2.....we're now actively searching for a new pup.

I found my last dog (my first hunting dog) through an ad in the...

Well, the soil around our cabin and the neighbors is mostly dense, moist clay....I mean, you could literally make pottery out of it. But the dogs do get in some sandy spots every once in a while....