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Thread: Religious Rights or Gay Rights?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default Religious Rights or Gay Rights?

    http://townhall.com/columnists/todds...1280/page/full

    New Mexico Supreme Court ruled unanimously that a photographer who would not accept an assignment to photograph a gay commitment ceremony was guilty of discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    The court's position
    “The Huguenins today can no more turn away customers on the basis of their sexual orientation – photographing a same-sex marriage ceremony – than they could refuse to photograph African-Americans or Muslims,” Justice Richard Bosson wrote in the court’s unanimous decision.

    “But there is a price, one that we all have to pay somewhere in our civic life,” the justice wrote. “The Huguenins have to channel their conduct, not their beliefs, so as to leave space for other Americans who believe something different. That compromise is part of the glue that holds us together as a nation, the tolerance that lubricates the varied moving parts of us as a people.”
    The gay spokesperson:
    “It’s about discrimination,” she said. “It’s not religious rights versus gay rights. We have a law on the books that makes it illegal to discriminate against LGBT persons. It makes it illegal for business to do that and this business broke the law by discriminating against this couple.”
    While my position on gay "marriage" is one that favors civil unions with the same rights as herterosexuals, I'm not sure I agree with compelling a someone to participate in someone else's religious ceremony which stands for values a person cannot condone.

    It seems different to me to treat LGBTs equally in all legal and social respects v. asking someone to participate in their religious beliefs. Participating voluntarily would be different as well v. compulsion by threat of legal action, and the articles cites "thousands of dollars in fines."

    I'm just not sure about this.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  2. #2
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    OK... so I've been following this and I think it's really interesting. Couple of thoughts:

    1) The progressive movement has tried (successfully) to redefine freedom of religion to freedom of worship. So you can be a devout Christian in America... as long as you're within the walls of your church. Of course... that's only for Christians. If you're a Muslim cab driver you don't have to pick up people who have liquor from the duty-free shop or passengers who need service dogs. Don't want to have aggrieved Muslim cabbies. Christians? Who gives a rip?

    2) The gay community has from the start tried to style their movement as identical to the Civil Rights movement. I grew up in the Jim Crow south. The stuff that gays "endure" is nothing... nothing like what blacks lived day in and day out. A photographer who doesn't want to take pix at your wedding is not the same guy who met blacks at the door of his restaurant with an axe handle.

    3) IF I was a photographer, my approach would be simple. I would not take any money for the photo spread. I'd do it for free. However, the pictures would just all be a little bit over-exposed. If I were a Christian who was a baker... there just wouldn't be any sugar in the cake. It is totally passive aggressive. You can force someone to do something (maybe)... but you can't force them to do it well.

    Again... for blacks desegregating the South, it was a victory just to sit at the counter and be served lunch. That's not at all what is going on with gays. It is not enough to have their lives normalized (I couldn't care less how they live) they must grind down the religious faith that will always define their practices as sinful. (And let's not get into theology stuff here. It's just a fact. Whatever you think about it, that's pretty much the official teaching of orthodox... small "o"... Christianity.)
    Last edited by 1tulip; 08-22-2013 at 10:35 PM.

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    I'm sort of surprised that this wasn't removed to Federal Ct. The issue is sexual discrimination vs freedom of religion.....as in a statutory issue vs a constitutional.one. Given that the happy couple found a photographer, I don't see the cause of action once the NM law is taken out of play.
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    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    The gay rights movement has morphed from just accept us to you have to advocate for us or you are against us. Instead of finding a photographer with their values they force someone who does not hold their values to accept them. They don't want to respect our rights/values/beliefs.

    Tom
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Actually, the couple did find another photographer ... cheaper ... but the discrimination had already occurred. Similar to Fair Housing laws ... even if the person who was discriminated against found another home to buy, the discrimination would have already occurred.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    The courts continue to "Legislate from the Bench"....at some point, they must be stopped....

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    Senior Member RailRoadRetrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    The courts continue to "Legislate from the Bench"....at some point, they must be stopped....
    It won't........

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    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    The gay rights movement has morphed from just accept us to you have to advocate for us or you are against us. Instead of finding a photographer with their values they force someone who does not hold their values to accept them. They don't want to respect our rights/values/beliefs.

    Tom
    BINGO !!!!!! Whole country is full of people trying to tell everyone else how to live etc. Tired of it !
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  9. #9
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RailRoadRetrievers View Post
    It won't........
    World History doesn't support your hypothesis....sooner or later it all is going to come to a head....one way of the other.....!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charly_t View Post
    BINGO !!!!!! Whole country is full of people trying to tell everyone else how to live etc. Tired of it !
    So true from both the left and the right. What if instead people just decided they didn't know what was best for other people? Wouldn't that be refreshing for a change! BTW, the photog has every right to turn down a gig he doesn't want. Forced association is unConstitutional.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

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