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Thread: North Dakota

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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default North Dakota

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...om-Natural-Gas
    I really didn't have any idea just how large this had grown ... in such a short time.

    I can remember a thread on this forum from a couple of years ago discussing the Bakken oil, and there was at least some skepticism that the technology existed to extract this oil cost effectively. Amazing what has happened in just a very few years.

    The article mentions that the state of ND has a $1.6 billion budget surplus, and they can't build infrastructure fast enough ... even though they have the $ to do so.
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    They produced more oil than Alaska last year.

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    Yes, and they are flaring off $3.6 million of natural gas a day. Fttttttt... gone. The market-based system is working great. It is the biggest boom ever, and has all the good and bad associated with a boom.

    Search "ND natural gas waste" for the facts and opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...om-Natural-Gas
    I really didn't have any idea just how large this had grown ... in such a short time.

    I can remember a thread on this forum from a couple of years ago discussing the Bakken oil, and there was at least some skepticism that the technology existed to extract this oil cost effectively. Amazing what has happened in just a very few years.

    The article mentions that the state of ND has a $1.6 billion budget surplus, and they can't build infrastructure fast enough ... even though they have the $ to do so.
    The Williston Basin was good to their initial producers, shallow deposits, reasonably priced labor. Fracking changed that, they have always known the carbons were there. My 1st oil investment was Dallea Petroleum, a Williston based producer. A 1 employee company, they bought poor producing wells, with low overhead they hoped to turn a profit. 5 years later it had not moved, there was no market for the stock, but was able to sell for a 50% haircut. Made up for it when buying DNR, a company with the same type of operation except for the injection of CO2 to create secondary & tertiary recovery.

    MDU is very active in the Bakken, with plans to build a 20K BPD diesel refinery & a major truck stop along I-94.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Yes, and they are flaring off $3.6 million of natural gas a day. Fttttttt... gone. .
    So Henry, you've made the criticism, what would your solution be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    The Williston Basin was good to their initial producers, shallow deposits, reasonably priced labor. Fracking changed that, they have always known the carbons were there. My 1st oil investment was Dallea Petroleum, a Williston based producer. A 1 employee company, they bought poor producing wells, with low overhead they hoped to turn a profit. 5 years later it had not moved, there was no market for the stock, but was able to sell for a 50% haircut. Made up for it when buying DNR, a company with the same type of operation except for the injection of CO2 to create secondary & tertiary recovery.

    MDU is very active in the Bakken, with plans to build a 20K BPD diesel refinery & a major truck stop along I-94.



    So Henry, you've made the criticism, what would your solution be?
    Just stating facts Marvin. $3.4 million a day. Gone. Maybe they should have invested in capturing it, years ago. They are just getting around to it now. Perhaps some sort of permit condition early on that limited the amount of natural gas that was let go. It is amazing what industry can do when required to do it and still make huge profits. Water standards are a great example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Just stating facts Marvin. $3.4 million a day. Gone. Maybe they should have invested in capturing it, years ago. They are just getting around to it now. Perhaps some sort of permit condition early on that limited the amount of natural gas that was let go. It is amazing what industry can do when required to do it and still make huge profits. Water standards are a great example.
    I thought that someone of your intellect would have a solution along with your criticism - the problem has existed since they started drilling at Titusville.


    As for water, we are all aware of what clean water does & believe we benefit from same. But, & this may be beyond your level, We have reached the point in many cases that over regulation is creating more problems than it solves. The days of seeing a fin moving on a fish 30 feet below the surface are becoming rarer. There is only one way to solve that, less people.
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    Believe one of MDU subsidiaries has also announced natural gas line investment heading east out of the field.

    Also CHS (farmers coop) announced $1.2B fertilizer plant in eastern ND right along I-94. Natural gas conversion process

    Bought MDU last summer at $22, trades today $28, div stock, not great fundamentals but likely to improve...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    I thought that someone of your intellect would have a solution along with your criticism - the problem has existed since they started drilling at Titusville.


    As for water, we are all aware of what clean water does & believe we benefit from same. But, & this may be beyond your level, We have reached the point in many cases that over regulation is creating more problems than it solves. The days of seeing a fin moving on a fish 30 feet below the surface are becoming rarer. There is only one way to solve that, less people.
    Yes, Marvin as I understand it this has been a problem for a long time. I do not have the solution but suggested a regulatory approach could work since the market has allowed such waste to occur for a very long time.. I just think that 100 years from now folks are going to look back and say "what fools, wasting a precious non-renewable energy source."

    I am sure there are instances of over-regulation, but the rhetoric outpaces reality in my experience. I can also point to many instnaces where under-regulation and a lack of enforcement has created much larger problems that have huge costs to society. I would bet we agree on your last point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Yes, Marvin as I understand it this has been a problem for a long time. I do not have the solution but suggested a regulatory approach could work since the market has allowed such waste to occur for a very long time.. I just think that 100 years from now folks are going to look back and say "what fools, wasting a precious non-renewable energy source."

    I am sure there are instances of over-regulation, but the rhetoric outpaces reality in my experience. I can also point to many instnaces where under-regulation and a lack of enforcement has created much larger problems that have huge costs to society. I would bet we agree on your last point.
    Government regulation is never the solution..just look at Obama and the mess he has made....look to the free market! When is becomes profitable to capture and sale this natural gas, they will! The existing regulations make capturing this gas to expensive, primarily do to the EPA requirements....nothing new here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Yes, Marvin as I understand it this has been a problem for a long time. I do not have the solution but suggested a regulatory approach could work since the market has allowed such waste to occur for a very long time.. I just think that 100 years from now folks are going to look back and say "what fools, wasting a precious non-renewable energy source."

    I am sure there are instances of over-regulation, but the rhetoric outpaces reality in my experience. I can also point to many instnaces where under-regulation and a lack of enforcement has created much larger problems that have huge costs to society. I would bet we agree on your last point.
    Do you really believe that there is waste of 3 million+ per day of natural gas just because the company is a bunch of fools. Don't you realize that if it were profitable to capture the gas that the company would not do it? Don't you realize that the rules and regulations are what makes it unprofitable and as a result, the gas is not captured? I have come to realize that there are two groups that support such regulation. One group is those that write the regulations. Their primary objective is to write more and more regulations because would they would not have a job if it were deterimned that no new regulations should be written? The second group are those that DO NOT have the wherewithall to compete in a free market place. Their attitude reminds me of something my father used to say when women were not in the market place in significant numbers. He used to say "Behind every successful man is a woman telling everything he was doing was wrong". Now we have a growing group of siciety standing behind every succesful company spouting offeverything the company is doing wrong. The only problem is THEY CAN'T DO IT BETTER! If they could THEY would own the companies that do the work.

    Rules and regulataion have two main results. They provide jobs for thase that write them and protects those that could not compete in a free market place. Other than that, they do very little. There are so many examples that I will not mention any of them but if you dissagee, I can do so.

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