so you may recall my no-go problem thread that was result of poor bird boy skills, bad thinking on my part to run a drill (dirt clod), and poor timing. this all occured on land. fast forward 2 months and im still getting a few no goes here and there. my course of action is "no" "sit" walk forward 10 steps "here" burn till he gets at my side then send. which he always takes off and usually gets in the AOF.
fast forward to last friday. got new grounds to train on. still always in the back of my mind he'll no go and i usually can tell before i send him. set up a long single (250 yards). ran it and nailed it and did not no go. added 2nd gunner at 175 and ran as double nailed i with no no go. called it a day.
next day met group at training ponds. usually train here once a month. ran 6-7 short singles >125 yards. no-goed every single one. called it a day with that group and then some field trial guys showed up and decided we'd work through the problem with some pros (pro in experience not pro as in paid). set up some cheating singles between 150-250. went through all 3 marks no-goed them all but after the here burn he'd get in the AOF. they suggested maybe if i'd had this problem for 2 months maybe i needed to try something different. so they suggested when i come back up send him while they are in the air at the peak to not give him chance to bug or no go. it may create some bad habits but tackle the greater of the 2 evils first. it worked on first one but he didnt get any where near AOf and had to be handled.
after all the setups they got young dogs out to work on short (50-75 yards) cheating singles. most of them were just cutting corner type marks or running water. i worked him on it just to build confidence. did 6 flawlessly. the final one 75 yards he no goed
fast forward to today. set up a cold double on same field from last week 320 and 175. small hunts on both but didnt get any no goes and called it a day. lots of praise given and couple hup-hups
my question. do you think no goes are related to water? could he be tired from the day before or know that the swimming will make him tired? doesnt like to perform in public? could it be related to his dead tail we got around 2.5 months ago?
2 months ago the burn on a no go was a 3, saturday we made it to a 5. its not a factor of not seeing mark because the wingers i use when i train alone have a primer on them and only half the time does it go off. and he still nails the marks. saturday we were using thunders and bumper boys. he doenst no go blinds. almost any time he cheats i dont resort to nicks i just handle if its really bad. luckily he's a pretty water honest dog. last week were only real field trial marks. everything up to this point has been confidence building marks >125 yards
I just read that and then took a Tylenol and thought about it and the one thing that stands out in my mind is that you usually know he's going to no-go before you send him. Can you explain that a little bit more?
bugging mainly. doesnt get down in his launch stance. ears dont perk up
sorry for the long story im just trying to give all the details so it will hopefully lead to a clear (as can be in this situation) answer
And you are 100% sure that he's seeing the marks?
Yes. The ones we run in the field are 2" flashers at 300 yards that throw flat more than up. And as I said primer rarely goes off. The thunders are loud and slow and the bumper boys are loud and have more hang time. Also like I said he would bug and I'd send then here burn and he'd get we'll within AOF. Even had a buddy watch him as marks go off and his remarks were "he saw that and bugged. Kick him off be ready for no go"
Why are you walking forward 10 steps? Try the opposite...move backwards!
Is this bugging occurring when the bird is in the air? Is this a head swinging thing or a defiance issue in looking at the marks fall? I am still not convinced that he is seeing the mark. A 2" with a flat throw at 300 is hard to see. I think that he is seeing part of the fall but not all of it and he is not confident and is anticipating correction. Without being there to witness first hand, the first thing that I would do given the situation is to call a no bird the next time you anticipate the no-go and have the mark re-thrown for him and see what happens. Is this the dog that is 17 months?
Originally Posted by Tony Marshall
correct he is 17 months. he is seeing the flat 2" from wingers which is why he is nailing those marks in the field. the bumper boy and thunder on water are what i got no goes on. and most of those landed on water or bank with a splash. the bugging is happening after the marks land. he looks away (and not towards other station)
the second no go on saturday at pond was a 100 yard mark and i looked down and saw what i thought was a no bird and not a bug. so i took him off the line and honored so he could see marks being ran he gave a little whimper when the other do was sent. walked back up. he did it again and thats when buddy (whom i trust and has 2 MH dogs) said "that was a bug..."
i too though considered he didnt mark them but why would he get to AOF and give a tight hunt after a correction.
Gundawg: you are trying to encourage forward movement with a no-go so you step forward
He may just be running out to the gunner and establishing a hunt after the correction. It seems like when he is not confident that he saw it that he is using avoidance because he is anticipating the correction. If he's been FTP then he knows that he has to go so he is running to the gun and starting hunting. I would think differently if you said that he was pinning the mark after the no-go. I believe that the sequence you have been using has gotten you into trouble. I would consider backing up and doing nothing but hand thrown marks at much shorter distances. I would do whatever it takes to get the dogs confidence up and would avoid any correction on marks including handling or collar corrections. If the dog no-goes, have the gunner "hup, hup" him and get him moving. Grab his collar and physically move him forward, whatever you have to do. The main thing is that what you are doing isn't working. His confidence is low and he is anticipating correction. Simplify ad nauseam until he is going every time even if you have to have the gunner feed them to him or seed the area. Whatever it takes.
Originally Posted by blake_mhoona
And one more thing, sounds like you aren't throwing very many birds for the dog. That would be another initial step that I would take. JMO