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Thread: odd problem

  1. #31
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Does the dog ever no-go on you in a test? Maybe you got a Rodman dog (doesn't like to train, but likes to play the game ). I got a girl does the same thing in training to me; I know she's gonna no-go, it's just going to happen and I just got to deal with-it. I either step her offline (wait to run her), hoping she'll stop her game (doesn't happen often but we can hope ). Or No-nonsense, bump her forward (I don't use the sit, (as soon as I see the change) I just walk-off-heel-(nick), pay-attention mark), seems if you do the sit they anticipate the nick,(it becomes a custom just what they do before they run) and you end-up playing their game. Sometimes I'll also do a collar-ear shake, No pay-attention. Different forms of correction/pressure. We mix it up, trying to break the custom.

    I've come to the conclusion, it's just something with her and me, she doesn't pull this crap with others. I think because the others, took care of it right away, (it never became a custom). But her and I have history, a history where she knows she can play with me, so I got to be tough (but fair)every-time. Hope that perhaps one day it'll connect that I no longer play her game, and she'll stop playing it (hasn't happened yet but I'm getting more consistent). Plus side she's never ever done it to me in a test, she loves tests. She also doesn't do it to me if we train alone. But get her in a training group (club days especially), bingo back into the custom. The more people the worst she is, she loves to play to a crowd. Thus I've become very particular in where I train her, I train with a group that knows the dog, and how she trains, so we no longer get audience interference "Poor dog/too much pressure, bad-mean trainer" (Try as I might even when I absolutely know I'm being fair the audience affects me, the dog can read it and we back slide, so no-more of that).

    Just keeping telling your-self; I don't need to look good, I don't need to win training day,, I just need to train (that means the dog gives effort and does as he's told), If I can maintain the No-nonsense approach we get a lot of work done in every training session. Sure we look terrible, but we're getting things done. Negative sometimes it's very tiring for the trainer, however When Dennis Rodman shows up on test day, it's worth it .

    Favorite quote from a Club training day in all seriousness stated to me after running my MHR, HRCH, MH " When did you get a Junior Dog?"

    If you ever figure-out the secret on how to get a Rodman to love training, please let me know
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 08-29-2013 at 03:27 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH-I HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  2. #32
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    Attrition is pressure and all marks don't have to be cheaty. Spend more time teaching what to do that what not to do. Slow down, you have had numerous issues related to pushing too hard too fast. I'm as guilty as anyone. I threw my dog right back into all age work right after tplo recovery at just over 2 yrs old. To me it sounds like your doing similar. Try to learn from your mistakes. You need to treat this dogs training like your preparing for a senior test vs derby for a while. JMO
    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    i think this is probably what i'm leaning towards as the answer. which is weird because i dont use the collar for a cheat. i usually use attrition.

    when we went over to work young dogs and he did really well it was a big body of water and we were just cutting corners. no re-entries, or any majorly technical aspects.

  3. #33
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    I'd only throw a few marks with live birds a day. Do a couple pattern blinds on the next day. Maybe do something fun like go to the beach on the third day with the dog. Kinda sounds like your routine has become really tedious for the dog and heal burning all the time just adds to the misery.

  4. #34
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    I don't throw out training advice since I am not qualified but I will throw out a couple of thoughts for you to chew on.

    First, Malcolm Sykes, an excellent (ex) young dog trainer told me when we got our puppy that the number one mistake he sees people make with young dogs is to stretch them out too far too soon. He made me promise not to do that and to keep things black and white with limited factors (distance increases the factors the dog must navigate) and just let the dog mark.

    Second, I have a older dog with bad line manners. He seems to think he can mark birds looking over his shoulder and such like his dad Cosmo but he can't. We have tried lots of things and we have made it better, but not good enough. This summer all we have been doing with him are fairly short marks but he doesn't get sent until his butt is on the mat. After we moved from singles, the next bird is not thrown until the butt is on the mat. No stick, no collar--nothing. I just stand there and don't say a word. I could do four short marks like this and he would be way more gassed than after a big open series. Totally exhausted. Even though I don't do a thing, the guy is under a lot of pressure and it wears him out. As folks have said, pressure isn't just the collar.

  5. #35
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    Trained Wednesday on the field again and ran pretty decent marks. Did 2 and called it a day. Didnt have a no go. Ran Saturday at the ponds. Did 2 blinds one was sub par the other well below it but to be expected at his age and our lack of local water to train on. Did 2 marks. One was flawless. The other was a good meaty mark and he was within 75 yards when a group of killdee took off right next to him and he got off track shot another one to let him get his bearing and recovered well. Ended it on that. No no goes.

    Im beginning to think that either a) working out on Friday before going to the ponds last time really tired him out and he didnt recover well with going to bed late and waking up early. B) feeding him before training makes him less wanting to work. I fed last week at 430am stepped to the line at 7. This week didnt feed till we got back at 1. or C) some days they have it some days they dont
    Last edited by blake_mhoona; 09-03-2013 at 01:17 AM.

  6. #36

    Smile No-Go

    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    Trained Wednesday on the field again and ran pretty decent marks. Did 2 and called it a day. Didnt have a no go. Ran Saturday at the ponds. Did 2 blinds one was sub par the other well below it but to be expected at his age and our lack of local water to train on. Did 2 marks. One was flawless. The other was a good meaty mark and he was within 75 yards when a group of killdee took off right next to him and he got off track shot another one to let him get his bearing and recovered well. Ended it on that. No no goes.

    Im beginning to think that either a) working out on Friday before going to the ponds last time really tired him out and he didnt recover well with going to bed late and waking up early. B) feeding him before training makes him less wanting to work. I fed last week at 430am stepped to the line at 7. This week didnt feed till we got back at 1. or C) some days they have it some days they dont
    A dog needs routine. Feed at the same time(s) everyday and do not work the dog within 2 hrs after feeding, this can cause a twisted stomach.

    Marks are the best part of the day for the retriever, make them FUN for a young dog. Slowy build up to the more difficult set-ups and always simplfy when the dog has a problem.

    Don't make a big deal over the no-go. Re-throw until the dog indicates a mark before you send. If the problem is an echo, don't shoot at the gun station, have the gunner gave a hey hey. You and your dog need to be having fun not a bad day. The motivation is in the good time, not the trouble. Avoid hot spots, places where the dog has been corrected.

    Use as many live birds as you can. Even use live shackled birds at the end of a blind. Make training a fun thing, not a dreaded outing. The people you train with can help you, don't think of them as judges, but training partners. You never get a blue ribbon at the training session.

    Positive positive postive training, if you take to much away from the dog with pressure it is almost impossible to give it back.

    Have fun!!

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