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Thread: Water blind trouble

  1. #1
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    Default Water blind trouble

    i've went through swim-by and finished great. But, when I send the dog on bigger ponds we are having several issues.

    1. Wants to run the bank back and i've tried casting him back in the water but its impossible. i've tried casting him back in. it doesn't matter how much collar pressure, he won't get back in the water. and, he does well with casts on land so he knows the hand cast I'm giving.

    2. Sometimes, he does well with whistle sits in the water, but sometimes he will not stop and might even swim to the bank and then turn around, or change direction to get to the bank and turn around i feel he knows what i'm asking but just won't do it until he gets to the bank. So, then he's on the bank before I can cast him so obviously we have to do all casting to the blind on the bank.

    3. When he does swim back, he won't come to the spot I'm standing. He'll exit down the bank from me. And, when doing marks he usely swims back to the spot I'm standing. I'm baffled.

    A couple days ago I found a pond that was thick on both sides of the pond thinking he'd think the bank was more trouble than swimming back. Nope, ran through the briars, didn't care, was not coming back in the water.

    It's not like he doesn't like water, he's a strong swimmer, loves it and hits the water like a bat out of hell.

    Shew, I'm at a loss. Any suggestions??

  2. #2
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedigo View Post
    i've went through swim-by and finished great. But, when I send the dog on bigger ponds we are having several issues.

    1. Wants to run the bank back and i've tried casting him back in the water but its impossible. i've tried casting him back in. it doesn't matter how much collar pressure, he won't get back in the water. and, he does well with casts on land so he knows the hand cast I'm giving....

    It's not like he doesn't like water, he's a strong swimmer, loves it and hits the water like a bat out of hell.

    Shew, I'm at a loss. Any suggestions??
    There are several items to discuss about this. Being a strong swimmer and liking water are different things. He may appear to 'like water' when its on his terms. But Swim-by is your terms, and the drill may have seemed to go well, but he won't go in on your terms. All of this is contradictory. Did you water force him before you started Swim-by?

    Evan
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedigo View Post
    i've went through swim-by and finished great. ??

    not trying to crack wise but.......
    from all the issues you typed above, you ain't done swim-by.
    are you in a group? any live folk at your side to offer help?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    to the OP your post like your dog is all over the place, so I will ask a couple of questions before offering up any advice


    1. Has your dog done "COLD" land blinds before ?

    2. Has your dog ever done a "SIGHT blind
    All my Exes live in Texas

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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Just curious, how much collar have you used "in the water"? Does the dog run cold land blinds?
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
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    Senior Member Randy Bohn's Avatar
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    Wow...where to start...just because the dog finished swim by doesn't mean he/she will take casts in a true training atmosphere..it's called transition training...
    After swim by we do...1) parallel the shore water marks with land on left and then on right side of dog.....
    2) parallel the shore with re entries
    3) channel marks...channel marks with re entries
    4) water blinds are done only after our dogs understand land blinds first...thoroughly.....
    5) most dogs won't get ruined by improper training in basics or in advanced training but where dogs lose attitude and get ruined is in transition training

    seek help your well on your way to ruining the dog if your correcting right after swim by in water...Randy
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    Member mathewrodriguez's Avatar
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    Before you heed any of the aforementioned advice, which should be a must, TEACH YOUR DOG TO SIT. Everything that is done in this game is based off of two fundamentals, SIT & FETCH. If your dog is not sitting or stopping in the water, don't do anything else and work on sit. Your dog has to sit no matter what when you tell it to sit... PERIOD. This is the most basic of basic commands. If not, you will see your dog unravel at some point, as you are now witnessing. Work on your sits until they are perfect, your dog is square, paying attention to only what you are having them focus on, and to the extent that they don't move or take their attention off of what you have them focused on until you tell them to do so, no matter what the distraction. It's much easier to teach a student something when they are focused on the task. After you have taught your dog to sit, then go back and work on your transition work.
    Matt Rodriguez

    "The will to win is nothing without the will to prepare."

  8. #8
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohn View Post
    Wow...where to start...just because the dog finished swim by doesn't mean he/she will take casts in a true training atmosphere..it's called transition training...
    After swim by we do...1) parallel the shore water marks with land on left and then on right side of dog.....
    2) parallel the shore with re entries
    3) channel marks...channel marks with re entries
    4) water blinds are done only after our dogs understand land blinds first...thoroughly.....
    5) most dogs won't get ruined by improper training in basics or in advanced training but where dogs lose attitude and get ruined is in transition training

    seek help your well on your way to ruining the dog if your correcting right after swim by in water...Randy
    Pedigo, Read Randy Bohn's post again!

    Just because you have done swim by doesn't mean your dog is a finished water dog. He needs more work before you can do quality water blinds. Randy's transition is different than mine as I think he's got better water available to him than I have available to me. BUT!!! I still make sure my pups have thorough knowledge and training in channels, re-entries, angle entries, angle exits and long angle entries, before I work that particular factor into a real water blind.

    I think you tried to do step E before step C and D.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

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    Thanks guys! That is a lot of good information. I've been trying to get him ready for a seasoned hunt test this coming weekend, but maybe I'm rushing it.

    He's pretty good with cold blinds on land, but we do need a little work.

    I also think I've reached my limit on being able to train myself. That sucks because I like it, but I appreciate the constructive criticism and glad I asked the question. He's great and the last thing I want to do is ruin him!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedigo View Post
    Thanks guys! That is a lot of good information. I've been trying to get him ready for a seasoned hunt test this coming weekend, but maybe I'm rushing it.

    He's pretty good with cold blinds on land, but we do need a little work.

    I also think I've reached my limit on being able to train myself. That sucks because I like it, but I appreciate the constructive criticism and glad I asked the question. He's great and the last thing I want to do is ruin him!!
    Don't give up, You have to find a good training group or join a club.

    They will help.
    Keith

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