The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: Water blind trouble

  1. #11
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,209

    Default

    So, has he been water forced?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,744

    Default

    It is hard to train by yourself. Don't give up, but find a group and go to get help. Once you get your issue ironed out you can go back to training yourself again. Heed Randy's advice. Dogs are situational learners. Take your time!
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83047
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83051



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  3. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Evan - He has been water forced.

    And, I do have some people helping from our central KY club. It's a good group and they've helped me a lot. I just wanted to throw out the questions to a large group in a forum to see if there was some sort of census.

    I'm not giving up, just don't want to push the dog in the wrong direction due to lack of experience on my part.

    Thanks for all the feed back!

  4. #14
    Senior Member verne socks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belgium, WI
    Posts
    382

    Default

    Does he seek the land same on marks of similar line?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedigo View Post
    Evan - He has been water forced.

    And, I do have some people helping from our central KY club. It's a good group and they've helped me a lot. I just wanted to throw out the questions to a large group in a forum to see if there was some sort of census.

    I'm not giving up, just don't want to push the dog in the wrong direction due to lack of experience on my part.

    Thanks for all the feed back!
    Good. They are good dog people. Did you do the water forcing? Have you kept it maintained?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  6. #16
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,209

    Default

    Do you follow why I'm focusing on water forcing?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  7. #17
    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lindsay, Ontario
    Posts
    690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Do you follow why I'm focusing on water forcing?

    Evan
    Evan

    As a solution for him, I am not sure why he should be focusing on force. I know that your background has you focusing on force.

    But, to me, it seems that he shouldn't be using force when he is getting the responses he describes when he does use force! He has already said it doesn't matter how much force he uses, the dog doesn't get back in the water. This is a clear signal that he hasn't taught many steps that should precede what he is doing. A lot of that can be done with relatively little force. For example, some of Randy's examples do not have to involve much force at all. Heck! no ropes either (Sorry-Ken!).

    It sounds like his dog doesn't know basic rules that should be taught before being reinforced and before being forced to do something when he doesn't do them. Forcing a dog that doesn't know the rules or hasn't been taught is a sure route to even bigger problems.

    There just too much of this "Force is a first solution to solve problems" IMO.
    Dennis

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mohawk Valley
    Posts
    8,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Do you follow why I'm focusing on water forcing?

    Evan
    personally no. But stick with what you know

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  9. #19
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mohawk Valley
    Posts
    8,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieversONLINE View Post
    Evan

    As a solution for him, I am not sure why he should be focusing on force. I know that your background has you focusing on force.

    But, to me, it seems that he shouldn't be using force when he is getting the responses he describes when he does use force! He has already said it doesn't matter how much force he uses, the dog doesn't get back in the water. This is a clear signal that he hasn't taught many steps that should precede what he is doing. A lot of that can be done with relatively little force. For example, some of Randy's examples do not have to involve much force at all. Heck! no ropes either (Sorry-Ken!).

    It sounds like his dog doesn't know basic rules that should be taught before being reinforced and before being forced to do something when he doesn't do them. Forcing a dog that doesn't know the rules or hasn't been taught is a sure route to even bigger problems.

    There just too much of this "Force is a first solution to solve problems" IMO.
    what? You missed the rope a dope step? It's available for explanation....


    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  10. #20
    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lindsay, Ontario
    Posts
    690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    what? You missed the rope a dope step? It's available for explanation....
    /Paul
    See my Avatar for how I use ropes. Use 'em everyday. Don't you dare call my horse a dope!

    Horses teach you to teach. Force doesn't foster true teamwork with them!! Skip too many steps and it hurts!!!!
    Dennis

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •