The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 41

Thread: "Aversives": A little something for the newer trainer.

  1. #11

    Default

    I don’t chime in on many of these discussions but I wanted to expand on the examples of aversive stimuli lest someone object to it’s use.
    Yelling “NO” or Ahhh, “Lunging at” or “towering over” a dog, Jerking on a lead, Jerking on a collar, Twisting an ear, Striking the dog, Getting in the dogs face and blowing the whistle (seen this one before) would all be aversive.
    I particularly like this statement “It is not the level of unpleasantness, but rather the effectiveness...”. I believe we can all agree that the “best” aversive stimuli you can use, is the one that can be the most effective with the least intensity.

  2. #12
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NE Texas
    Posts
    2,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Thanks for the insight.

    Evan
    Yes I agree. Dr. Eds post was very insightful on multiple levels.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  3. #13
    Senior Member Brad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Tyler, TX
    Posts
    1,324

    Default

    ok, so lets say you were to adversive in the water and caused confidence problems. What do you do.

    Not sure if that made since, I was just running by CP at the office
    Last edited by Brad; 09-06-2013 at 01:49 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,207

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    ok, so lets say you were to adversive in the water and caused confidence problems. What do you do.
    Do you mean forcing and/or correcting in water? Trainers do that often with no ill effects, but that's because the dog was prepared properly for it through conditioning to the particular aversive used. The problems arise either when such conditioning has not happened, or when the aversive was improperly used.

    How to repair the damage is individual to each case.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  5. #15
    Senior Member Brad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Tyler, TX
    Posts
    1,324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Do you mean forcing and/or correcting in water? Trainers do that often with no ill effects, but that's because the dog was prepared properly for it through conditioning to the particular aversive used. The problems arise either when such conditioning has not happened, or when the aversive was improperly used.

    How to repair the damage is individual to each case.

    Evan
    Yes, I mean correcting in the water. I think I used to much pressure in the water once and caused problems cause we wernt ready for what I was trying to do (after thinking about it).
    Now dog gets nervous when tying to handle in water and sometimes gives up.
    He is close to master level

  6. #16
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,207

    Default

    Let's see if we can find the central issue. What training have you done with him so far?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  7. #17
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mohawk Valley
    Posts
    8,671

    Default

    Knowledge is good but worthless without wisdom.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  8. #18
    Senior Member Brad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Tyler, TX
    Posts
    1,324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Let's see if we can find the central issue. What training have you done with him so far?

    Evan
    Obedience. FF, FTP ,TT Discaplined casting on land swim bw (twice) pattern blinds, with diversions, cheating singles.
    I thank Ive done it all, but burnt him up on water and havnt been able to get the confidence back in training.
    He ran 5-6 coold blinds last year when hunting in a stick pond with no problems. Went to OK and he would go out to deep water and when the cripples would dive under he would also. He fetched one under water.
    Awsome hunting dog, He can sleep on the tail gate and when I shot a dove and it falls in the pond he will mark it.
    Its just in training when he gets nervous.
    Ive quit the collar mostly in the water.
    I think the first epasode when i burnt him up caused the problem. Trying to fix it now.

    Oh and yes I do train with an experinced group and a member of 2 clubs.
    I have my ideas, just looking for more.
    Thanks,
    Brad
    Last edited by Brad; 09-06-2013 at 03:59 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,207

    Default

    Yes, it sounds like you've completed the skill set of Basics, other than water. Were you water forcing when this happened? Swim-by? Something else?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  10. #20
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,207

    Default

    Thanks Brad. I'd like to help as much as I can. Under the circumstances you would be better served to find a competent pro to coach you through this than to rely on a back & forth here. My email is rushcreekpress@aol.com if you care to get in touch anytime. But try to find a good pro if you can, or an amateur who trains at a high level, and has many years experience.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •