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Thread: FF Pressure Question

  1. #1
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Default FF Pressure Question

    So I am about one week in on FF and seem like I am doing well but I also finding myself that I am needing to use A LOT more pressure than needed to get the response needed... I will explain where I am:

    This pup can take A LOT of pressure and seem to find that I get very little results using lower pressure even when collar conditioning. The pup I had last year this time was CC on level 1 at times 2, this pup is on a 3 sometime 4 and get the best and snappiest results from him.

    When FF I am following Lardys programs and find that I am at a good point to start walking fetch with ear pinch but the problem I am running into and have been running into this whole week is that anytime I lightly pinch his ear he reaches and grabs it off the ground with no urgency and spits it out once he grabs it... anytime I use the finger nail with a little more pressure he reaches out quick and holds on like he never wants to let it out of his mouth but also whines a little but am getting the response needed... Do I continue on like this? Again I feel everything is going well and he is starting to understand more of what I am asking but I just dont like pinching his this much...??? Thoughts


    I know Lardy doesn't CC until he has completed FF but I found this to work for me so before anyone says to follow the flow chart the way he has it and am fully aware of it and am following everything else after FF and CC.
    HPK's A Warriors Call "Titan"
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    He's doing what you've taught him. Light pressure means grab but only more pressure means hold onto it. And if one week in, you've already gone to walking fetch, I'm guessing the initial teaching of how to respond to the pressure is nowhere near solid enough. While your dog has a general understanding, it sounds more like he's "guessing right" as opposed to having actually developed a conditioned response. Back up to teaching the stimulation properly. Make the dog sit and hold it, using the initial pinch and nothing else. Don't say "hold" or distract the dog. If the dog gets loose with it or starts to drop, correct with the pinch and mean it (which is the way it should be applied the first time, rather than using more pressure as a correction). Next, move to having the dog pick it up via pinch, then heel beside you while holding...correct if he gets loose or starts to drop.
    Sharon Potter

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I agree 200% with Sharon.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  4. #4

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    Yep, I agree. Also, Watch your tone. Keep a level voice (same tone, same volume). You mention more or less pressure. Make sure you don't get more forceful with the command at the same time. He may be responding to you rather than the pinch.

  5. #5
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    He's doing what you've taught him. Light pressure means grab but only more pressure means hold onto it. And if one week in, you've already gone to walking fetch, I'm guessing the initial teaching of how to respond to the pressure is nowhere near solid enough. While your dog has a general understanding, it sounds more like he's "guessing right" as opposed to having actually developed a conditioned response. Back up to teaching the stimulation properly. Make the dog sit and hold it, using the initial pinch and nothing else. Don't say "hold" or distract the dog. If the dog gets loose with it or starts to drop, correct with the pinch and mean it (which is the way it should be applied the first time, rather than using more pressure as a correction). Next, move to having the dog pick it up via pinch, then heel beside you while holding...correct if he gets loose or starts to drop.
    Thank you Sharon I knew things where not quite right yet to move forward yet with him. I haven't started walking fetch yet, this is why I asked what I did.

    The question I have now is, just to make sure I understand what you are saying 100%, is to go back to a lighter ear pinch to get him to initially hold the dowel nothing else and to condition to him that the lighter ear pinch conditions him to grab and hold. I dont want to expect him to reach it off the ground where I started to run into the problem of him dropping the dowel.
    HPK's A Warriors Call "Titan"
    HPK's Every Shot Counts (Ammo)

  6. #6
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauge123 View Post
    Yep, I agree. Also, Watch your tone. Keep a level voice (same tone, same volume). You mention more or less pressure. Make sure you don't get more forceful with the command at the same time. He may be responding to you rather than the pinch.
    Gauge you have a good point on the tone of voice and thats one thing I have done much better with this pup than my last is not to raise my voice and I ran into problems with lots of commands "Sit" "Here" "Back" so I make sure no matter the pressure to keep my voice the same the whole time.
    HPK's A Warriors Call "Titan"
    HPK's Every Shot Counts (Ammo)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    There is no lighter pinch....doing that offers the dog an option. The pinch always means business, and the dog's goal must be to understand that, and beat the pinch by a fast and consistent reaction to the verbal. Use the level that causes an immediate and firm response. That should be like a drug addict desperate for the next fix, not just "ok, I'll put that in my mouth.". A properly conditioned dog will quickly figure out that releasing it means you"ll pinch again, and the dog will start not wanting to release. At that point, you know they understand. You should be able to hold the end and pull without the dog releasing until told.
    Sharon Potter

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    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    There is no lighter pinch....doing that offers the dog an option. The pinch always means business, and the dog's goal must be to understand that, and beat the pinch by a fast and consistent reaction to the verbal. Use the level that causes an immediate and firm response. That should be like a drug addict desperate for the next fix, not just "ok, I'll put that in my mouth.". A properly conditioned dog will quickly figure out that releasing it means you"ll pinch again, and the dog will start not wanting to release. At that point, you know they understand. You should be able to hold the end and pull without the dog releasing until told.
    I will continue only with heavier pinches, he is like a rocket with getting the dowel in his mouth when pinching heavier and doesnt want to let it go after that, my sessions have only been 3-6 mins at the most right now 2-3 times a day. Any reason to switch to longer session or should i stay with that?
    HPK's A Warriors Call "Titan"
    HPK's Every Shot Counts (Ammo)

  9. #9

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    "doesn't want to let go"
    This is common. The whole process is no fun for the dog or the trainer. Assuming you release the pressure as soon as the dowel is in his mouth, he has learned how to relieve the pressure. FF is working.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Your session length is fine. The main thing is to accomplish something well, and always end on a good note. My norm is to get the same correct response three times in a row, then quit. Sometimes that takes one minute, sometimes twenty minutes.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

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