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Thread: Please define secondary selection

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    Default Please define secondary selection

    I'm watching the Total Retriever Marking and they've set up an out of order flier (first bird down, thrown in toward the middle), a short middle bird thrown in the direction of the flier that retires and a long bird off to the right.

    I'm just seeing them take them the birds up in order right to left. So maybe I don't understand the terminology. I must be missing something.

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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Second bird selection, last bird down retrieved first, shorter of the remaining marks retrieved second

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    Secondary selections means the dog gets the last bird down first and then you choose the next one...usually the shortest one...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Secondary selections means the dog gets the last bird down first and then you choose the next one...usually the shortest one...Steve S
    Bold by me.

    Sorry Steve, there is no choice in the matter, the shorter of the two memory birds is to be picked up 2nd and the long bird last. Dave Rorem has a term for picking up the long bird 2nd. I believe he calls it Ideal selection. I don't know if he does it with all his dogs or just a few.

    I spend a lot of time training secondary selection, picking out the short retired with a visible long gun out.
    Howard Niemi

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    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Bold by me.

    Sorry Steve, there is no choice in the matter, the shorter of the two memory birds is to be picked up 2nd and the long bird last. Dave Rorem has a term for picking up the long bird 2nd. I believe he calls it Ideal selection. I don't know if he does it with all his dogs or just a few.

    I spend a lot of time training secondary selection, picking out the short retired with a visible long gun out.

    Hypothetical test. Triple technical water, long retired bridge mark L to R (230), thrown at the heels of the flier L to R short (80yds), left stand out gun (190) true line across two points one on right other on the left thrown down a peninsula (a bit of a technical mark), if they miss one of the points they end up way behind gun. Lots of in and outs to both memory birds. Order.... long/middle 1, Left 2, flier 3. How do you pick them up, or attempt to pick them up?....your the first dog to run and the test dog blew up.....? Oh and it's a trial.

    I would like to hear what "ideal selection" is? I was under the impression that secondary selection was training the dog to select what ever bird the handler wants after retrieving the (primary bird) go bird? Is that not accurate? None the less I work very hard on selection, including selecting the long bird second. Seen some great dogs that were/are expert at it....such a invaluable tool.
    Last edited by jeff evans; 09-08-2013 at 01:42 AM.
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    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    The problem is once a dog has gone long, getting them to go short is very difficult. Pull next shortest bird out then go long. Ideal selection takes a very good dog, comfortable and relaxed on the line and excellent marker.

    /Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    The problem is once a dog has gone long, getting them to go short is very difficult. Pull next shortest bird out then go long. Ideal selection takes a very good dog, comfortable and relaxed on the line and excellent marker.

    /Paul
    Agree and can be one of the hardest things for a dog, I train for this in gundog situations and feel it is very important.
    Jim Weitzel
    Proud member of Ole Roy prostaff

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    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Here is an article about Ideal Selection. It was written by Dave Rorem and published in Retriever News:

    http://www.theretrievernews.com/RNew...-2010ROREM.pdf
    Renee P

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    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    Thanks Mitty, That was a good read.
    May you pin all the marks and line the blinds!!

    Avatar courtesy of RTF"s TZAPPIA

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    I was under the impression that secondary selection was training the dog to select what ever bird the handler wants after retrieving the (primary bird) go bird?

    Yes... that was what I thought secondary selection was and when they took the marks "in order", I was confused. So what I get from this is that it has to do with the short mark. Next question... is "short" a relative term? If the marks are (say) 275 yd., the middle 320 and the go bird 300, does distance alone mean you shouldn't pick them up in order? Would you necessarily go outside, outside in?

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