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Thread: Please define secondary selection

  1. #81
    Senior Member JeffLusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    Isn't that the truth? Steve has been chastised throughout this thread, and was vindicated, and then someone thinks a question asked repetitively is going to be perceived as innocent. Go figure.
    For the record I didn't read through the thread besides the last couple of posts. So I have no idea.
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  2. #82
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLusk View Post
    For the record I didn't read through the thread besides the last couple of posts. So I have no idea.
    You didn't miss anything. As you indicated, Ted Is still Ted.
    Susan

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  3. #83
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    AGAIN I ASK!


    What happens when you run a venue where the Judges can and do dictate order of pick up?

    They may tell you in the briefing that the last bird down , is stone dead in the decoys, but, the second bird thrown in the multiple mark, was a crippled bird, and you must pick it up first.

    So, dont those Dogs have to have a very good understanding of "selection" and be very compliant about which bird the handler MAY demand the dog to retrieve?

    I suppose you call this "Primary" selection.


    A dog that is consistently trained to pick up the next shortest bird after the LBD on a very regular basis,, tell me what is the Handler and dog selecting.

    Isnt that "Secondary" selection then, just a consistent routine?


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  4. #84
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    Isn't that the truth? Steve has been chastised throughout this thread, and was vindicated, and then someone thinks a question asked repetitively is going to be perceived as innocent. Go figure.

    Vindicated? You have an odd interpretation of events, Susan.
    Innocent? The thought never crossed my mind.
    Curious as to his basis of knowledge, since he does not judge or run field trials? Absolutely
    Satisfied as to his competence to support his claims? No, but this is the internet where - as the ad says - everyone who says that they are a French model, must be
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    I think it was the same poll that determined how most people in the sport use the term secondary selection and what most people in the sport feed their dogs.

    Respectfully, I disagree with Steve. I think it can be a very difficult concept to teach, that of running past a short gun and sending long in many instances. This means the dog may at times have to disregard their nose, And disregard a bird that is quicker to get to, And obviously knows it is there. I personally wouldn't classify it as an issue of a dog being head strong. In certain situations with the right dog, it can be a beautiful tool in your war chest.

    Interesting discussion as long as people are not being chastised or beat up.
    This is not what primary selection was used for ...It was used to select the short one first as in the example of a short retired with a long flyer as the last bird down..That is exactly what happens every weekend...Dogs run by short retired to get a longer flyer....The reason for secondary selection is to get the short bird second ( most of the time ) after the dog has gone long for the flyer...My diffinition of head strong is not giving ones will over to another....If dogs were not head strong dog training would be a piece of cake....Steve S
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    What pros teach primary selection? What pros teach ideal selection? If they don't teach it, why not?
    Aa far as I know none do now...the reason is as plain as the nose on your face...When dealing with flyers the dogs will to get that hot bird is very difficult to over come....Steve S
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  7. #87
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    This is not what primary selection was used for ...It was used to select the short one first as in the example of a short retired with a long flyer as the last bird down..That is exactly what happens every weekend...Dogs run by short retired to get a longer flyer....The reason for secondary selection is to get the short bird second ( most of the time ) after the dog has gone long for the flyer...My diffinition of head strong is not giving ones will over to another....If dogs were not head strong dog training would be a piece of cake....Steve S
    I guess we have different definitions of headstrong. In your scenario Steve I see many people that will pull out the short retired before they will go get a long flier. Long flyers are not nearly as exciting as one that's up close and personal.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    Vindicated? You have an odd interpretation of events, Susan.
    Innocent? The thought never crossed my mind.
    Curious as to his basis of knowledge, since he does not judge or run field trials? Absolutely
    Satisfied as to his competence to support his claims? No, but this is the internet where - as the ad says - everyone who says that they are a French model, must be

    you're very amusing this evening. I think it is you that has the odd interpretation of events Ted. And yes, it is easily interpreted that you were being the bully. And that has no place on RTF as you have indicated many times. Sometimes the French model is really a bully in disguise.
    Susan

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  9. #89
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Aa far as I know none do now...the reason is as plain as the nose on your face...When dealing with flyers the dogs will to get that hot bird is very difficult to over come....Steve S

    What is "plain as the nose on my face" is that the statement you made above contradicts your statement below

    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Probably not, but tried by many....As Rex stated and gave it up ...too hard to teach to most dogs ...the reason is because dogs can be head strong.....As Dennis has stated, it is practiced a lot in Canada...The reason is because of no flyers ,thus less of a temptation for the dog to choose which one it wants....If practiced a lot the concept must not be that hard to teach ...It is all about the dog giving to the handlers will...Steve S

    If the concept is not that hard to teach, and the concept is as valuable as you claim, then why aren't any pros teaching it?
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    AGAIN I ASK!


    What happens when you run a venue where the Judges can and do dictate order of pick up?

    They may tell you in the briefing that the last bird down , is stone dead in the decoys, but, the second bird thrown in the multiple mark, was a crippled bird, and you must pick it up first.

    So, dont those Dogs have to have a very good understanding of "selection" and be very compliant about which bird the handler MAY demand the dog to retrieve?

    I suppose you call this "Primary" selection.


    A dog that is consistently trained to pick up the next shortest bird after the LBD on a very regular basis,, tell me what is the Handler and dog selecting.

    Isnt that "Secondary" selection then, just a consistent routine?


    Gooser
    gooser- What venue do you run where the judges dictate the order you must pick up the birds? I have only run akc fts, akc hts, and Ukc hts.
    Susan

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