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Thread: Please define secondary selection

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Ted, I also included the words "conveying a thought " Isn't that what you are trying to do..? I understand the need(desire) for all retriever people to have the same meaning attached to all terms and words use in communication so there is no confusion in the communication process...We all form the same picture in our minds....I'm just saying secondary means second choice....Steve S
    Steve

    If you want to simplify communication, you comply with convention and accept traditional meaning to terms.
    If you want to complicate communication, you buck convention and create new meanings for traditional terms.
    You are free to use the term "secondary selection" however you choose. However, your use is contrary to how most people in the sport use it.

    Ted
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  2. #22
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Agree I just want to git the chickens and when I train train. At a hunt test or trial if my dog wants the shortest bird last or the longest bird or something inbetween it's OK I just want to make it to the next series.
    Each dog as Susan indicated might do things a little different. Example if your at a hunt test or trial, one might say (watched it as a judge many times) I gonna make him get that bird, I can see the guy/gal with their taillights going down the road after that series in my mind now.
    Most of the instructional materials use jargon. If one doesn't understand the jargon, one cannot learn the lesson that is presented in them. Hence, the OP's question. She did not understand the discussion about bird selection strategies because she did not understand the jargon.

    I thought the definition of secondary selection was standard, so this has been a great thread as I have learned that it is not!

    Cart before the horse regards...
    Renee P

  3. #23
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Actually, Steve is not alone in his definition, and I wouldn't say "most" field trial people use the term in that manner. I have found that many people use it in that manner, focusing on the portion of the word "second" in the term "Secondary".... that is why I suggest to people coming into the sport to NOT focus on definitions, but on what you actually need to do in order to get birds out of the field. Worry about what to call it later.... and if you do it properly, you can just call it success. I just don't think it's a good thing to focus on the semantics of a definition, but would rather spend my time being helpful to the person with the actual question and look at what they are trying to achieve.
    Susan

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  4. #24
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    Not to get in a semantics issue and having trained many retrievers over the years , advised by those with many more pelts then I have/had, secondary selection as I was taught, is getting the next shortest bird second after the go bird in training. At a trial or hunt test well see #19 post.
    Earl Dillow

  5. #25
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Most of the instructional materials use jargon. If one doesn't understand the jargon, one cannot learn the lesson that is presented in them. Hence, the OP's question. She did not understand the discussion about bird selection strategies because she did not understand the jargon.

    I thought the definition of secondary selection was standard, so this has been a great thread as I have learned that it is not!

    Cart before the horse regards...
    Yeah, sometimes you have to ask an additional question or two, so you know if you are on the same page or not. With Total Retriever marking, a quick look at the DVD if you don't recall would tell an experienced person what was happening.

    We are taught to pick up birds in reverse order of the way they go down, except in February, when there are 29 days, and you need to pick up the next shortest bird. But, if Fido wants the filet mignon, and it's not the next shortest bird..... what do you do?

    Get a thorough understanding of what you are doing and why, then add the definitions in later.
    Susan

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  6. #26
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Not to get in a semantics issue and having trained many retrievers over the years , advised by those with many more pelts then I have/had, secondary selection as I was taught, is getting the next shortest bird second after the go bird in training. At a trial or hunt test well see #19 post.
    I agree Earl.
    Susan

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  7. #27
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    Secondary selection taught to me by those much more accomplished then myself is picking up the second shortest bird after the go bird in training. It is a long standing field trial term as I have been taught since the early 80's . Now lets not talk about primary selection! See post #19 everything has a label I realize, but, secondary selection is secondary selection ultimate goal of many trialers, have not heard the term around hunt testers. Have run many hunt tests, but, always with dogs that were trial trained.
    Earl Dillow

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1tulip View Post
    I'm watching the Total Retriever Marking and they've set up an out of order flier (first bird down, thrown in toward the middle), a short middle bird thrown in the direction of the flier that retires and a long bird off to the right.

    I'm just seeing them take them the birds u p in order right to left. So maybe I don't understand the terminology. I must be missing something.

    Here is the original post. Thus, contrary to what Susan said, the poster is asking about terminology. Moreover, in this thread, most field trial people take the term "secondary selection" to mean picking up the shortest bird remaining after picking up the go bird. See

    - Ed Aycock, post 2
    - Dave
    - Rorem, post 8
    - Howard Niemi, post 18
    - Earl Dillow, post 24

    It is unclear what Susan believes the term means, but I would agree with Ed, Dave, Howard, and Earl - as a matter of terminology. See post 12.

    As to what to do in competition, that is another question - one not asked by the OP and one far more complicated to boot.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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  9. #29
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    Had a good friend ask me today why I train by myself and not in a group with a other Ams. I told her I got tired of the pissing matches between everyone on who knew more than the other, threads like these prove my point

  10. #30
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    Had a good friend ask me today why I train by myself and not in a group with a other Ams. I told her I got tired of the pissing matches between everyone on who knew more than the other, threads like these prove my point
    ROFL

    ya funny how a dozen different people can come on, say the same thing, but since the said it now its hard fact from expert testimony.

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