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When honoring dog breaks ...

9K views 30 replies 19 participants last post by  HNTFSH 
#1 ·
What are your responsibilities as the working dog handler? This happened to me this weekend and it's a scenario I had never thought about before.

As handler, I was sitting on a cooler at the line, as per judges instructions. My dog was at heel beside me. Honoring dog broke for the birds. Handler shouted at dog. My dog, being 5 feet from shouting guy, was reacting to the guy and his commands. My first thought was that the test was "on hold" and judgement was off of us until the test was re-set. Thinking we were on recess, I talked to my dog and petted her back to keep her calm and because I was happy she didn't break. Not sure if the judges noticed this or not, because nothing was said and we restarted the test. Later I started wondering if I broke the rules by talking to her softly and touching her?

So in summary, if you're on line with your dog and honor dog breaks, are you still under judgement, or do you have a time out while breaking dog is brought under control?
 
#3 ·
Section 11. Interference. In a Senior or Master Hunting Test, when a dog is ordered by the Judge to retrieve a fall, and another dog breaks for the same fall and interferes with the working dog to the extent of causing it in any way to make a faulty performance, the dog interfered with shall be considered as not having been tested and given another evaluation.

What is yalls take of the bolded line?
 
#4 ·
Not a judge and not an expert handler. I'd expect my dog to stay put no matter what and figure any praise I hand out is as I'm leaving the line not at the line. What I think is a tougher question is... if my dog breaks, what then? Wouldn't want to yell at her since we're going to rerun this thing. My thought is I'd defer to the judge? Until they tell me to reheel my dog, I'm letting her go.

Good question. I'm anxious to see what others think.
 
#8 ·
Seems like you could ask judges what to do as a handler during the test explanation. Yes / No?
 
#9 ·
It did happen to us at a master test. The first word out of my mouth was "no bird, sit". In fact the honoring dog retrieved the flyer and brought it back to me, beside my dog. The judges did apology. It was very very confusing. We went back 5 dogs and got a master pass.
 
#11 ·
It was very very confusing.
It can get confusing quickly. Last honor dog I saw break while in close quarters was a master where I'd been taking birds. Was between the judges and honor dog, behind the handler/working dog. Land/water series.

Honor dog broke on the first bird but rather than get after the mark - it immediately started humping the working dog which remained at Sit.
 
#16 ·
I guess it depends on the judges and the venue. Had the honor dog break in a qual on us this spring. Dog was recalled, and we were given our number to retrieve. Unfortunately, I think it affected my dogs performance and we got 4th place.
 
#17 ·
That's just WRONG! I'd be so tempted to turn around and just say... "Are you sure??? For a minute there I thought you called my number! Heh!"

Vis... calling your dog back. Calling your dog off when it has a head of steam is, to the dog, very punitive. According to TRT I'm studying, it's more so than a whistle, nick, handle. Yes... if there was any risk of or appearance of a confrontation with the breaking dog I'd do what I had to up to and including running out and intervening and/or screaming at the other handler and threatening a law suit. (Or whatever.) All that to say, if you know you're going to rerun it, calling the dog back in may mess with its head as much as the foot race with the breaking dog.
 
#18 ·
When I am judging an HRC test, as soon as the honor dog breaks the test is over. I will send the working dog back 3 dogs (if possible) just like it there had been a no bird.
 
#20 ·
Hmmm I've always just brought the dog to heel, and walked them off-line, so I can get a lead on them. The only dog-fight, I've ever seen, (two males) handler was not able to get the honor dog back, honor dog ended up rushing the working dog (rip-rolling fight ensued). Both dogs got wrote up for fighting (which is really bad AKC juju). Do what is needed to Get your dog back and get them off the line.

Sounds like your dog got pretty intimidated by the honor dog handler, I hope it didn't affect her run
 
#21 ·
....handler was not able to get the honor dog back, honor dog ended up rushing the working dog (rip-rolling fight ensued). Both dogs got wrote up for fighting (which is really bad AKC juju). Do what is needed to Get your dog back and get them off the line.
Ouch - working dog also cited for being rushed by honor dog on a break? That woulda pissed me off. ;-) I couldn't even consider that a trainability issue.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Here's a stupid take on things that I would argue until I got dropped...

Once the honor dog leaves, aren't YOU now the honor dog? At that point it should be legal to speak softly to your dog, per the rules.

And regardless of "the judge's call", I expect a shot to run the test without the added distraction, thus I would respectfully ask to be sent back three dogs if the honor dog broke, especially in a competitive stake.

It's just not fair after a dog just watched the honor dog break and be restrained, to expect a clean job of marking.

A hunting test judge could take this distraction into consideration and score accordingly, with a notation in the book. It's in no way fair in competition and almost demands a re-run. Having said that, it's a judge's call and that doesn't mean they will agree with me. That's just part of playing the game.

At the end of the day you have to respect the judge's decision.
 
#26 ·
Darrin, What I have obsevered is what you described. Generally when the honor dog breaks there is interference as the handler is trying to get their dog under control, and the running dog gets a "rerun".

I have seen a case where the honor dog waited to break until the running dog was well on its way to the first bird, and the honor dog handler was able to bring the honor dog under control without it effecting the running dog.
 
#27 ·
I think it was discussed to make it a rule that if the honor dog broke the working dog HAD to go back at least 3 dogs if possible. Sometimes you are the last dog running and have to suck it up but you should still be able to leave the line, go back to holding and start again with honor dog on lead. As a judge I do not even ask the handler if they want to stay on line, I send them back.
 
#29 ·
Good on ya. Some of us prefer, at times, to tough it out based on the dogs reaction. That said - make it easier for some (me) numbskulls to have no choice.

Last time I passed on waiting another 3 dogs (46th in a 49 dog senior) the memory bird went no problem and go bird was a no bird.

Reloaded wingers, again memory bird no problem, go bird didn't crest hill to mark it (from the dogs level).

Sent dog as lined but immediate turn to the bird he'd seen twice, not the bird he'd seen never. ;-)

Judge asked if dog does that all the time...lol...but I couldn't be a smartarse till we both figured out the go bird was never seen twice. Dog picked up both without a handle in the end. Point being 'stuff' sometimes happens back-to-back. :)
 
#28 ·
In our case, the honor dog broke after both birds landed - a split second before our number would have been called. He hit the water and his owner was able to call him back before any retrieve. My dog clearly marked the birds, and I stayed seated on the cooler hoping we could just go ahead and get it done. It was very hot (102) and I was second to last dog running. I was glad the judges had us continue our test and I think they weighed all the factors of the situation well. We pinned our marks and achieved our honor.

It was the long, Tule filled water blind that was our undoing!:mad:
 
#30 ·
In our case, the honor dog broke after both birds landed - a split second before our number would have been called. He hit the water and his owner was able to call him back before any retrieve. My dog clearly marked the birds, and I stayed seated on the cooler hoping we could just go ahead and get it done. It was very hot (102) and I was second to last dog running. I was glad the judges had us continue our test and I think they weighed all the factors of the situation well. We pinned our marks and achieved our honor.

It was the long, Tule filled water blind that was our undoing!:mad:
I agree with the judges decision here...I try to tell both handlers to " get your dogs under control " as soon as a break occurs...test over.....Let's avoid a fight ....Only the attacking dog should be written up ... no penalty for defending ones self....Steve S
 
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