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Thread: Touching dog in AKC test or trial: is it really against the rules?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    Actually I think since the intentional touching of a dog in the situation I described aids in controlling the dog (i.e., helps the dog see the next mark) that the rule speaks directly to that situation. After all, steadying a dog is not a end unto itself. The intent (or at least one of the reasons) of steadying is to enable the dog to be more successful in doing the work.

    I disagree. The Rule says "to keep him steady." One could argue that touching the dog with your knee has the intent of moving the dog, which makes it less steady. Moreover, I suspect that even if the dog showed no indication of breaking, if the handler touched the dog, you would warn the handler (as would I).
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  2. #32

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    I just had to add to this discussion. Master hunt test water marks and blinds. Holding blind is at bottom of hill with no room for the judges to stand so they are behind (and in) a holding blind that is stretched straight across. Dog and handler come down the hill into blind and judges call Guns Up. Handler removed leash. Judges start to discuss previous dog's performance in presence of handler for a long period of time. I move away from the judges, dog thinks we are going to line and starts to move by the judges and out of the blind. As he gets to me (still in the blind), I lean down and guide him back to my side. No big move, no yelling. If I had my leash on him, it would have been a matter of just pulling on the leash.

    Dog does a super job on the marks and wonderful job on the blinds. There is one more series and the judges do not call us back.

    Their reasoning, I touched the dog. I did argue and I should have brought the rule book out. I said the dog was not under judgment and their response was that the dog is always under judgment.

    What does anyone else think about that particular situation?

    Lisa

  3. #33
    Senior Member Cedarswamp's Avatar
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    Lisa, if the dog was working as he returned from a mark, it is still under judgment no matter where the bird was delivered. Unless the judge says "you may leash your dog" and you step back into the blind, or something like that for a no bird or the kid that is supposed to plant the blind didn't (maybe he forgot to let somebody know he was getting low on birds), basically no touching until the dog has completed the test and behind the judges. If they ask you to step back into a holding blind while said birdboy gets it done, normally they don't mind you touching the dog petting, but it still a good thing to ask. And yes, if the dog darts into the test area after being excused by the judges to go back to your truck, you can be dropped.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekirkeg@aol.com View Post
    I just had to add to this discussion. Master hunt test water marks and blinds. Holding blind is at bottom of hill with no room for the judges to stand so they are behind (and in) a holding blind that is stretched straight across. Dog and handler come down the hill into blind and judges call Guns Up. Handler removed leash. Judges start to discuss previous dog's performance in presence of handler for a long period of time. I move away from the judges, dog thinks we are going to line and starts to move by the judges and out of the blind. As he gets to me (still in the blind), I lean down and guide him back to my side. No big move, no yelling. If I had my leash on him, it would have been a matter of just pulling on the leash.

    Dog does a super job on the marks and wonderful job on the blinds. There is one more series and the judges do not call us back.

    Their reasoning, I touched the dog. I did argue and I should have brought the rule book out. I said the dog was not under judgment and their response was that the dog is always under judgment.

    What does anyone else think about that particular situation?

    Lisa
    lost... was it 1 grand blind with all 3 of yous and the dog in it?
    and the running line was in front of that?
    or 2 holding blinds back to back but close?
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cedarswamp View Post
    Lisa, if the dog was working as he returned from a mark, it is still under judgment no matter where the bird was delivered. Unless the judge says "you may leash your dog" and you step back into the blind, or something like that for a no bird or the kid that is supposed to plant the blind didn't (maybe he forgot to let somebody know he was getting low on birds), basically no touching until the dog has completed the test and behind the judges. If they ask you to step back into a holding blind while said birdboy gets it done, normally they don't mind you touching the dog petting, but it still a good thing to ask. And yes, if the dog darts into the test area after being excused by the judges to go back to your truck, you can be dropped.
    I read it as the dog/handler had not yet started the test and was still in holding blind.
    Tom Dorroh

  6. #36
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    I disagree. The Rule says "to keep him steady." One could argue that touching the dog with your knee has the intent of moving the dog, which makes it less steady. Moreover, I suspect that even if the dog showed no indication of breaking, if the handler touched the dog, you would warn the handler (as would I).
    you should watch more Caesar Milan regarding what touch does to a dog.

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  7. #37
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekirkeg@aol.com View Post

    What does anyone else think about that particular situation?

    Lisa
    I think "Welcome to Masters" and the judges names are now probably in the black-book on the Watch list . Sometimes even judges make questionable calls, but if you were out for dog touching why did they let you run? Of course in a big blind sharing Hoe-down-orgy; my dog would've been in the judges lap, eating his sandwich, so everyone would be written up for dog touching, probably one of those "don't ask...don't tell" situations
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  8. #38

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    Dear Ken:

    It was one grand blind (about 9' extended straight) with all 3 of us and the dog in it. It was right on the shore and you came out and stood right in front of it to watch your marks go down. So yes, the running line was right in front.

    I don't know if I made it clear that the judges had said guns up but they had not said "dog to the line". And when I touched the dog to bring him back to heel, he was still behind the blind and had moved maybe 3 to 4 feet.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekirkeg@aol.com View Post
    Dear Ken:

    It was one grand blind (about 9' extended straight) with all 3 of us and the dog in it. It was right on the shore and you came out and stood right in front of it to watch your marks go down. So yes, the running line was right in front.

    I don't know if I made it clear that the judges had said guns up but they had not said "dog to the line". And when I touched the dog to bring him back to heel, he was still behind the blind and had moved maybe 3 to 4 feet.
    Then you should not have been dropped. You touch your dog to remove the lead, don't you? Every dog in that blind should have been dropped, by that rationale....
    The dog will always prove you wrong

  10. #40
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labs View Post
    Then you should not have been dropped. You touch your dog to remove the lead, don't you? Every dog in that blind should have been dropped, by that rationale....

    I agree,
    you got hosed Lisa.
    But HEY! Welcome to the RTF
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