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Thread: When Govt Gets Too Big

  1. #11
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Gerry, how does your first post have anything to do with "examples of how big govt gets in its own way."? You cited a case of a private business person committing a crime, fraud, with his customers and the government (i.e. police, law enforcement) caught them.
    When there are 47 million people collecting $50/wk or about $200/mo that is a heckuva lot of money. That works out to $9.4 billion a month or about $113 billion a year. With even 1% fraud, that's $1 billion a year going down a hole. I'd guess there is more than 1% of this going on. They don't even notice this guy's "small" operation for, I'm sure, well over a year.

    This fella isn't the only one. Saw an article yesterday about another pair of brothers with a similar store who fleeced another $2 million from the system. Several smaller cases of under $1 million were also mentioned. These are only the crooks they actually found recently.

    Thus, when a govt program gets this huge, it becomes much harder to monitor ... so some rather substantial portions of the funding are not going to the people it was intended to help.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    ..... Thus, when a govt program gets this huge, it becomes much harder to monitor ... so some rather substantial portions of the funding are not going to the people it was intended to help.
    So, you are blaming the government for fraud being committed by individuals. Seems to me this is equivalent to blaming the huge number of guns available in the US to crimes committed by individuals and we know that guns don't commit crimes, people do. I am sure you would also agree that government programs don't commit fraud, people do, right?

    I am curious whether the government is also to blame for all the corporate fraud, banking fraud, tax fraud, etc? How about all the fraud in defense contracting?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    We really need a like button.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    So, you are blaming the government for fraud being committed by individuals. Seems to me this is equivalent to blaming the huge number of guns available in the US to crimes committed by individuals and we know that guns don't commit crimes, people do. I am sure you would also agree that government programs don't commit fraud, people do, right?

    I am curious whether the government is also to blame for all the corporate fraud, banking fraud, tax fraud, etc? How about all the fraud in defense contracting?
    The fraud is in the WH.
    Bill Davis

  5. #15
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    So, you are blaming the government for fraud being committed by individuals. Seems to me this is equivalent to blaming the huge number of guns available in the US to crimes committed by individuals and we know that guns don't commit crimes, people do. I am sure you would also agree that government programs don't commit fraud, people do, right?

    I am curious whether the government is also to blame for all the corporate fraud, banking fraud, tax fraud, etc? How about all the fraud in defense contracting?
    Is not the govt supposed to enforce the law? I don't blame the govt for the fraud. I blame the govt for not enforcing their laws effectively.

    If the govt compels you to pay taxes, then it has responsibility for the stewardship of those funds.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    I would say particularly in this case the government did enforce the laws. They may not have the resources to follow up on this as effectively as they should. The priorities for law enforcement also seem to have fraud pretty low on their list. Drugs and violent crime I would say take up the vast amount of resources. Most police departments are about 50% traffic enforcement also. it is not how I would like to see things done, but it is the reality of the situation.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Welfare programs constitute $916 BILLION of our annual budget. There are 80 different entitlement programs. Perhaps the Fed govt ought not be in charge of all of that? Perhaps localize it more so that it could get more individual attention?

    If the govt programs have gotten too large to enforce, thus literally hundreds of millions lost to waste and fraud, then something needs to be reformed. I won't leave waste in the military out either. There is plenty there as well.

    Lately, it seems the govt is falling short in its enforcement in too many areas. From its oversight of the IRS to very costly fraud in Medicare, taxpayers have seen real income decrease as the cost of these programs continues to increase. And the military says it would have taken 24 hours to get help to Benghazi! This does not bode well for a mammouth new program like O-care.

    I will not pretend that I have the answers to fixing all these programs. None of us in the citizenry have the information about all these hundreds (if not thousands) of govt programs among all the agencies. This is what what we are paying our legislators and govt employees to do. With the kind of $ that is involved, and our debt growing daily, they have not been doing their jobs. The Inspector General for the Fed Reserve could not explain where $9 billion got lost!
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    We really need a like button.
    Use the "thumbs up" down on the lower mid section ( sort of ). Some days it does not work for me however.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Welfare programs constitute $916 BILLION of our annual budget. There are 80 different entitlement programs.

    Are you including all social programs as welfare?
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  10. #20
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The article I took the figures from included at least food stamps (remember that's about $100 billion all by itself), cash for housing and clothing, Medicaid. You might be surprised how many people get $800-$1000/mo for rent. As a Realtor I run into that. Some also get partial benefits that are supposed to cover maybe 50% of their rent. College students can get that, too. Don't know if that also includes free school lunches and free school breakfasts or Head Start.

    I don't believe that would have included SS or Medicare, since those programs are paid into by the ultimate beneficiaries.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

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