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Thread: Honour dog leaves before being released

  1. #1
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    Default Honour dog leaves before being released

    Honour dog leaves the honour position to go sniff or return to the truck and shows no interest in the action in the field nor interferes with the working dog as it races out to pick up a mark. The judges have not released the honour dog yet either because the working dog has not reached a pre-agreed distance from the line or the judge wants to see at least one bird returned to hand by the working dog. The judges have given the handler of the working dog his/her number.

    Question #1 Has the honour dog incurred an infraction by moving before being released? If so what penalty?

    Question #2 Is the handler of the honour dog permitted to speak to his dog after the working dog has been given a release by the judges and in turn the handler has released his working dog to retrieve a mark in a field trial?

    Question #3 Is there a penalty to the honour dog who lays down at the honour position?

    For the many hunt test folks and field trial folkswhat does your rule book say?
    Last edited by Ironwood; 09-12-2013 at 09:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Assuming AKC

    1) dog left honor, it broke. End of your day thanks for playing.
    2) handler can speak quietly to the honor dog the entire time
    3) no, unless laying down prevents the dog from seeing the marks and the working dog.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  3. #3
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Corey is correct as the rules below state:

    "Section 6. Honoring. In Senior and Master Tests,
    every dog shall honor in at least one hunting situation
    involving the retrieve of a marked fall(s) by remaining on
    the line off-lead while the working dog retrieves, unless
    otherwise directed or until dismissed by the Judges.
    Only one dog at a time may be required to honor the
    retrieve of the working dog. The honoring dog must be in
    an area designated by the judges. The specific positions
    (sitting, lying down, etc.) of the honoring dog will be
    determined by the handler provided the honoring dog is
    positioned to clearly see all the marks without having to
    reposition itself."

  4. #4
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Dogs View Post
    Corey is correct as the rules below state:

    "Section 6. Honoring. In Senior and Master Tests,
    every dog shall honor in at least one hunting situation
    involving the retrieve of a marked fall(s) by remaining on
    the line off-lead while the working dog retrieves, unless
    otherwise directed or until dismissed by the Judges.
    Only one dog at a time may be required to honor the
    retrieve of the working dog. The honoring dog must be in
    an area designated by the judges. The specific positions
    (sitting, lying down, etc.) of the honoring dog will be
    determined by the handler provided the honoring dog is
    positioned to clearly see all the marks without having to
    reposition itself."

    Pretty clear whats allowed.

    OP's dog broke.... Have a nice day, your done.

    I dont however agree with the rule that allows a dog to lie down.

    I mean would you let your dog lie down when its the working dog? And why wouldnt you! Its because you want to make sure they can SEE!!

    The honor dog in MY mind is there in real life circumstances to be part of the hunt,, and if needed for some reason, to help pick up birds..
    Its part of the days hunt..

    I dont like piggy dogs that dont "Want"

    Now,,,, Dont all a you with lazy dogs get all wadded up! Gooser aint a Judge,, wont EVER be a Judge! I just like to come on here and spew my silly Opinion, when it raining so hard outside , that you have to consider you might drown if you go out!

    Such is the case this A,M. Thats why I is not training,, and wasting time posting on the internet, ( Training Group)

    Iknowits more information than you probably care to read,, but again,, I dont care if I bore you!

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    ....
    I dont however agree with the rule that allows a dog to lie down.

    I mean would you let your dog lie down when its the working dog? ....

    Gooser

    Yes, when "Gooser" hunting all the time
    photo lifted off a dog blind web page

    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  6. #6

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    I place my dogs in a down for the honor unless it will hinder their view of the birds. Have never had a judge tell me a down is not acceptable.

    Meredith

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mark Littlejohn's Avatar
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    I disagree, given the OP's precise scenario.

    1. Break. It is generally understood that a break occurs
    when a dog makes a movement, that, in the opinion of the
    Judges, indicates a deliberate intent to retrieve without having
    been ordered to do so, and cannot be brought under
    control by the handler.


    and

    Section 11. Interference. In a Senior or Master
    Hunting Test, when a dog is ordered by the Judge to
    retrieve a fall, and another dog breaks for the same fall
    and interferes with the working dog to the extent of
    causing it in any way to make a faulty performance, the
    dog interfered with shall be considered as not having
    been tested and given another evaluation


    This hypothetical dog has neither: 1. Shown an intent to retrieve 2. Interfered with the working dog, nor 3. Failed to show that he is able to be brought under control by his handler.

    Maybe this is a 10-yo "seen it all" dog that knows he's already picked up those marks, has completed his honor since the working dog has torn off for the go-bird, and would rather go sniff where that girl dog had just peed behind the mat? If I were judging this dog on honor and the working dog has left, I would likely quietly ask the handler to re-heel, then if done promptly, release him from honor. If he's back at the truck or in the gallery or eating a bird off the rack, then we have a problem.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Brad B's Avatar
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    I agree with Mark. The scenario described doesn't reflect any violation. And I see nothing wrong with the honor lying down.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I dont like piggy dogs that dont "Want"

    In FT, you are more likely to see the wild and crazy, Steve Martin, dogs in a down. That is because the handlers believe that the down gives them more control over the dog than the sit. So your premise is flawed.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    According to the FT Rule Book

    Page 27

    5. Judges shall in their discretion determine the number of dogs that shall be worked or kept on line simultaneously. In at least one test involving the retrieve of a marked fall in all stakes, except Derby, every dog should be kept on line off leash while another dog works. If a dog has failed the test and is asked to remain on line to honor the work of the next running dog, the Judges may direct that the dog honor on lead or off lead as they deem appropriate.

    6. When coming to line to be tested, and while on line, the dog and handler should assume such positions as may be directed by the Judges.
    Dogs should be considered under judgment from the time they are called to come to the line until they have left the line and are back of all the Judges and on leash.

    Page 32

    During the period from the moment when the handler signals readiness for the birds to be thrown until the dogís number is called, the handler of the working or honoring dog shall remain silent. Also, in all marking tests during such period, the handlerís hands shall remain quietly in close proximity to his body.

    If it were a field trial and I were judging

    1. Drop. Honor is a test of obedience. Dog failed.
    2. No issue
    3. Depending on how handler got the dog to down position, no issue.
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