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Thread: Honour dog leaves before being released

  1. #21
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    And this is the dog that has the best marks and had been wonderful all trial and you had penciled it into your blue position on the way back from that really tough long retired in the last series quad. I don't think so!

    From blue to bye-bye for this. Maybe you, but not me! Minor fault at most.


    Mark
    LOL. Now you are adding real world into this. No fair!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    I disagree, given the OP's precise scenario.

    1. Break. It is generally understood that a break occurs
    when a dog makes a movement, that, in the opinion of the
    Judges, indicates a deliberate intent to retrieve without having
    been ordered to do so, and cannot be brought under
    control by the handler.


    and

    Section 11. Interference. In a Senior or Master
    Hunting Test, when a dog is ordered by the Judge to
    retrieve a fall, and another dog breaks for the same fall
    and interferes with the working dog to the extent of
    causing it in any way to make a faulty performance, the
    dog interfered with shall be considered as not having
    been tested and given another evaluation


    This hypothetical dog has neither: 1. Shown an intent to retrieve 2. Interfered with the working dog, nor 3. Failed to show that he is able to be brought under control by his handler.

    Maybe this is a 10-yo "seen it all" dog that knows he's already picked up those marks, has completed his honor since the working dog has torn off for the go-bird, and would rather go sniff where that girl dog had just peed behind the mat? If I were judging this dog on honor and the working dog has left, I would likely quietly ask the handler to re-heel, then if done promptly, release him from honor. If he's back at the truck or in the gallery or eating a bird off the rack, then we have a problem.
    Go back and read the rule re honoring. Dogs must remain on honor until released by the judges. It may or may not be a break but if phideaux wanders off before he's excused he gets to stay on the truck. Now if the handler gets him back to the honor box w/o much fuss he's put the decision back in the judges' hands.

  3. #23
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    The OP stipulated HT and not FT.
    My response was directed to the previous posts and those who were absolute in dropping the dog, implying that they consider this action a major fault.
    Per the HT rules quoted and described scenario, this dog has not committed a major fault in my book.
    The dog would likely be marked down for trainability, but not not automatically dropped.
    I've never heard anyone ask for justification for not dropping a dog, unless a major fault were overlooked. Usually what's sought is the rationale behind the judges' consensus that a dog be dropped.
    Fair enough. It mentioned FT in #2 so I got confused on that part. I would just think that the HT judges would be more severe than FT judges since folks are always talking about the bad line manners of FT dogs and how it would affect the hunting If the dog was wandering all over creation, I would think that it was a bigger deal in HTs since I would not want them wading through the decoys when hunting when I told them to sit.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post

    From blue to bye-bye for this. Maybe you, but not me! Minor fault at most.


    Mark
    Sounds like a "green ribbon" compromise!
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  5. #25
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Dogs View Post
    Corey is correct as the rules below state:

    "Section 6. Honoring. In Senior and Master Tests,
    every dog shall honor in at least one hunting situation
    involving the retrieve of a marked fall(s) by remaining on
    the line off-lead while the working dog retrieves, unless
    otherwise directed or until dismissed by the Judges.
    Only one dog at a time may be required to honor the
    retrieve of the working dog. The honoring dog must be in
    an area designated by the judges. The specific positions
    (sitting, lying down, etc.) of the honoring dog will be
    determined by the handler provided the honoring dog is
    positioned to clearly see all the marks without having to
    reposition itself."

    I mean really,,,, Cant you READ??? Thats what Ted would tell me!!

    I didnt mean dog BROK to retrieve,, He broke his "sit" and wandered off before the judge told himhe could..

    Just like a test I should have failed when I got up off the bucket when I considered my dog sat there long enough!

    I got back to the gallery and was told I got up before being release,, but the judge didnt notice..
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
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  6. #26
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironwood View Post
    Honour dog leaves the honour position to go sniff or return to the truck and shows no interest in the action in the field nor interferes with the working dog as it races out to pick up a mark. The judges have not released the honour dog yet either because the working dog has not reached a pre-agreed distance from the line or the judge wants to see at least one bird returned to hand by the working. The have given the handler of the working dog his/her number.

    Question #1 Has the honour dog incurred an infraction by moving before being released? If so what penalty?

    Question #2 Is the handler of the honour dog permitted to speak to his dog after the working dog has been given a release by the judges and in turn released his working dog to retrieve a mark in a field trial?

    Question #3 Is there a penalty to the honour dog who lays down at the honour position?

    For the many hunt test folks what does your rule book say?


    Here is the OP's questions!!! I mean even Gooser can read,,, on some days!!
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  7. #27
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    I don't think there was a break. Rather, the dog failed to accomplish the task with which it was assigned - that being to remain in one place until released. Moreover, the listing of faults in the Rule Book is not exclusive. That is, just because something is not specifically listed on the Rule Book does not mean that it is not a fault.

    I think marking is of primary importance, but not of sole importance. I would drop. Clearly, others would not. That is the subjective element of judging
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I mean really,,,, Cant you READ??? Thats what Ted would tell me!!

    I didnt mean dog BROK to retrieve,, He broke his "sit" and wandered off before the judge told himhe could..

    Just like a test I should have failed when I got up off the bucket when I considered my dog sat there long enough!

    I got back to the gallery and was told I got up before being release,, but the judge didnt notice..
    A dog that breaks the sit and creeps on the honor is not automatically dropped....
    The dog will always prove you wrong

  9. #29
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Pretty clear whats allowed.


    I dont like piggy dogs that dont "Want"

    Gooser
    I find this humorous, as the only luck I've ever had with getting 2 fire-breathers to semi-relax on honor, is to put them in a down. It's amazing that dogs who can't sit, can down, sure doesn't stop them from seeing the bird, doesn't stop them from breaking either, but it does seem to stop them from prancing around, so now at least we get committed and pretty breaks. If your going to do something, always better to do it clean One of them the only way I could get him through HRC tests was to actually run him from a down, it never affected his marking, but I could control him better; without the dancing, and trust me a dog can still creep on a down, belly crawler regards .

    For the OP, what was the handler doing letting his dog run around & get in trouble before he was released? Seems Like extreme Handler Error to Me; If a handler cannot control his dog on honor, the dog should be dropped "for lack of control" regardless if he's affecting the working dog or not.
    We had a similar situation the dog got up wandered and then pee-ed on the judges leg, all while the handler was pleading with him to "heel-sit". No-one questioned why the dog was dropped .
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 09-12-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    I find this humorous, as the only luck I've ever had with getting 2 fire-breathers to semi-relax on honor, is to put them in a down. It's amazing that dogs who can't sit, can down, sure doesn't stop them from seeing the bird, doesn't stop them from breaking either, but it does seem to stop them from prancing around, so now at least we get committed and pretty breaks. If your going to do something, always better to do it clean One of them the only way I could get him through HRC tests was to actually run him from a down, it never affected his marking, but I could control him better; without the dancing, and trust me a dog can still creep on a down, belly crawler regards .
    This comes in handy when getting through a barbed wire fence and making a retrieve on thin ice...=D
    The dog will always prove you wrong

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