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Thread: Honour dog leaves before being released

  1. #61
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Some have paid too great a price for the attempt and learned the hard way....Steve S
    That's what I thought!
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    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    That's what I thought!
    .....
    .
    Repetition maybe, reprecussion more certain.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labguy View Post
    I'm very surprised at a comment like this coming from you Darrin. Maybe you want to re-think this.

    There are a number of very successful, talented and driven retrievers running field trials that essential ignore what's going on when they are honoring.

    These are seasoned veterens who have simply learned after hundreds of times to the line that there are no more retiieves coming.

    Situational learning 101. They simply know that the job is done.......................why would you fault a dog for this level of intelligence in understanding the game??????
    It was a real question as opposed to a rhetorical one. I wouldn't fault it as long as it didn't interfere with the working dog. I was really curious since I've never seen it except in dogs that really weren't interested in the first place but muddled through the work (which I really grind my teeth over passing). Sorry if accidentally offensive.
    Darrin Greene

  4. #64
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    It was a real question as opposed to a rhetorical one. I wouldn't fault it as long as it didn't interfere with the working dog. I was really curious since I've never seen it except in dogs that really weren't interested in the first place but muddled through the work (which I really grind my teeth over passing). Sorry if accidentally offensive.
    I've judged all age stakes for a number of years... In the old days ran HTs and judged them too (NAHRA). I've seen some of the best dogs around show no interest at all in what was going on in the field during their turn at honor. It's because they have learned the routine... We almost always do it after they pick up their birds... So the dog knows its done. The older savvy dogs like Pete said, just yawn. I had one that was an AFC that was the same way. As soon as the birds hit the ground and the working dog got his number (or should have), my old dog would excuse himself and head for the truck. The judges generally were laughing.

    I have never run HRC or AKC HTs and don't profess to know the rules there... But in my experience... Why are we even talking about this? Reminds me of the former NBA player Allen Iverson and his famous "practice" rant.
    Bill Davis

  5. #65
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Hello Guys,
    I must interject and ask for an opinion from all ends of our spectrum. I guess that would mean both MooseGooser and Ted and everyone in-between.
    And I don't want this to be glazed over as a "Bora Promoting NAHRA again" thing as I know it is done and legal in all of the other venues afore mentioned.
    The Cold Honor!
    a few summers back (well maybe more than a few, I am thinking of Timber doodle in NH) at the NAHRA Field tests. A senior setup that was in vogue that summer was. Working dog comes to line. Another dog and handler are already in front of the judges. You sit in your assigned spot at the end. Like that age old hunt test scenario. You are late and the others started without you.
    So you walk up and sit,
    Other dog and handler and judges are hunting and are already "set up"
    Marks go down.
    Other dog picks them up!!!
    Then leaves with all those birds and its handler!!!
    Then you run a blind and move over to the front position, if you could do a blind retrieve after that.
    Scenario, remember NAHRA has to have a hunting scenario given, is that the other dog couldn't run blind retrieves so could you pick up that last one?
    And if you did it
    Another dog and handler walked up to watch you get your marks.
    Dogs and handlers set in the routine as you all so many are stating above would come unglued!
    And the judges got a few test requirements over with in one swell foop.
    So, why don't you guys mix it up more often?
    Ted, have you ever tossed in a cold honor in a trial?
    MooseGooser, have you seen this in your HRC days?
    it is a fun set up.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  6. #66
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Ran one this year

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  7. #67
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Hello Guys,
    I must interject and ask for an opinion from all ends of our spectrum. I guess that would mean both MooseGooser and Ted and everyone in-between.
    And I don't want this to be glazed over as a "Bora Promoting NAHRA again" thing as I know it is done and legal in all of the other venues afore mentioned.
    The Cold Honor!
    a few summers back (well maybe more than a few, I am thinking of Timber doodle in NH) at the NAHRA Field tests. A senior setup that was in vogue that summer was. Working dog comes to line. Another dog and handler are already in front of the judges. You sit in your assigned spot at the end. Like that age old hunt test scenario. You are late and the others started without you.
    So you walk up and sit,
    Other dog and handler and judges are hunting and are already "set up"
    Marks go down.
    Other dog picks them up!!!
    Then leaves with all those birds and its handler!!!
    Then you run a blind and move over to the front position, if you could do a blind retrieve after that.
    Scenario, remember NAHRA has to have a hunting scenario given, is that the other dog couldn't run blind retrieves so could you pick up that last one?
    And if you did it
    Another dog and handler walked up to watch you get your marks.
    Dogs and handlers set in the routine as you all so many are stating above would come unglued!
    And the judges got a few test requirements over with in one swell foop.
    So, why don't you guys mix it up more often?
    Ted, have you ever tossed in a cold honor in a trial?
    MooseGooser, have you seen this in your HRC days?
    it is a fun set up.
    Ken, well trained dogs don't come unglued on cold honors... At least the few that I have been associated with. It's no different than a poison bird scenario except that those marks are probably far enough out of the way to not be a bother. And have been picked up anyway... How many of us have never let a dog honor in training and watch another dog work?
    Bill Davis

  8. #68
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Ken

    Havent run that exact test you explained but something similar in HRC.

    My experience in HRC has seen the Honor dog and Handler very much a part of the working dogs test.

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironwood View Post
    Honour dog leaves the honour position to go sniff or return to the truck and shows no interest in the action in the field nor interferes with the working dog as it races out to pick up a mark. The judges have not released the honour dog yet either because the working dog has not reached a pre-agreed distance from the line or the judge wants to see at least one bird returned to hand by the working dog. The judges have given the handler of the working dog his/her number.

    Question #1 Has the honour dog incurred an infraction by moving before being released? If so what penalty?

    Question #2 Is the handler of the honour dog permitted to speak to his dog after the working dog has been given a release by the judges and in turn the handler has released his working dog to retrieve a mark in a field trial?

    Question #3 Is there a penalty to the honour dog who lays down at the honour position?

    For the many hunt test folks and field trial folkswhat does your rule book say?
    I haven't read the other posts, but what does Honor mean to you and did you ask the judges the same? I had a senior dog who understand what I meant by no bird and decided to roll on her back with legs kicking in her joy, but never left the plain...The judge release the dog and remark "She is sure enjoying her space" and passed...When in doubt, ask.

  10. #70
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    I've judged all age stakes for a number of years... In the old days ran HTs and judged them too (NAHRA). I've seen some of the best dogs around show no interest at all in what was going on in the field during their turn at honor. It's because they have learned the routine... We almost always do it after they pick up their birds... So the dog knows its done. The older savvy dogs like Pete said, just yawn. I had one that was an AFC that was the same way. As soon as the birds hit the ground and the working dog got his number (or should have), my old dog would excuse himself and head for the truck. The judges generally were laughing.

    I have never run HRC or AKC HTs and don't profess to know the rules there... But in my experience... Why are we even talking about this? Reminds me of the former NBA player Allen Iverson and his famous "practice" rant.
    Thanks Bill (and others). I had to really think about this. I've judged a couple of AKC MH tests thus far and been to several dozen, along with probably 2-3 dozen FT's. I couldn't figure out why I hadn't noticed this phenomena. Then it hit me... Nothing to notice.
    Darrin Greene

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