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Thread: Honour dog leaves before being released

  1. #71
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    FT breeding, consequencely where all Labrador breeding starts is breeding for the "b" type dog that is biddable and smart enough to understand the game. Heck honors are often waived because the FT dogs know the drill. Dogs with FC AFC i front of their name rarely/never break on honor.
    "Women are like labradors...,they all have their quarks."~Phil Robertson

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    The OP stipulated HT and not FT.
    My response was directed to the previous posts and those who were absolute in dropping the dog, implying that they consider this action a major fault.
    Per the HT rules quoted and described scenario, this dog has not committed a major fault in my book.
    The dog would likely be marked down for trainability, but not not automatically dropped.
    I've never heard anyone ask for justification for not dropping a dog, unless a major fault were overlooked. Usually what's sought is the rationale behind the judges' consensus that a dog be dropped.
    I fail to see where HT is specified.

    John

  3. #73
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    I misread the OP's scenario and thought the dog took off before the marks but that was not the case. As a judge, I would not agree to have a dog sit there until a bird was delivered to hand. Once the working dog is sent, I would release the honor dog. IMO, the scenario is trying to trick a dog which makes the honor more important than the marks. I guess in that case, that is what the two judges wanted so you should obey. They can toss you or ding for a lack of control.

    Ran a cold honor a few years back and didn't like it. I thought it was too mechanical and wasted precious time. I believe the scenario made me play circus music in my head.
    Last edited by kjrice; 09-23-2013 at 06:57 PM.
    A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Mark Littlejohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Gassner View Post
    I fail to see where HT is specified.

    John
    Post #1 has been edited. See post #26 which contains the original post. Pretty uncool to change it in the middle of a discussion.

  5. #75
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    Post #1 has been edited. See post #26 which contains the original post. Pretty uncool to change it in the middle of a discussion.
    In that same OP that is quoted in post 26, the OP in question #2 mentions FT's.
    Bill Davis

  6. #76
    Member mathewrodriguez's Avatar
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    My dog lies down. My dog also gets out of the truck off lead and stays off whether hunting, at hunt tests or field trials. Hunt tests should mimic just that... testing a dogs hunting ability in a hunting environment and atmosphere. A dog that is at a master or even a senior level that can not obey the simple commands of sit, down, heel, leave (no-bird)... IMO are not senior or master level "hunting dogs." Depending on what and where one hunts, a dog may hunt primarily from a down position. Nearly all our duck and goose hunts are hunted with dogs remotely set back off the firing line in mut-huts in a down position. Rarely do we hunt with the dog sitting or standing beside us. It's also my opinion that cripples should be used, 5 and 6 bird down volleys with 2 working dogs should be used, and area blinds (blinds in a "general vicinity" that require a hunt them up command) should be used in a master level hunt test to recreate a more realistic hunting scenario. Too much of what is seen at hunt tests are concepts that rarely happen and are created by guys that don't hunt or hunt twice a year. And yet, they are judging Master Hunt Tests??? What does happen in a hunting situation is a volley comes in, the caller calls the shot, everyone fires in a flurry, a few birds fall 20-30 yards out, one bird falls 50-60 yards out and the last shot sends out a sailor that glides 125+ yards. On occasion you get a really long glider or you have one that drops behind the blind that's impossible to mark yourself, but you know the general vicinity of where the bird landed. That's a hunting scenario. That's what should be incorporated into a "Hunt Test," especially one at a "Master Level." What is done at hunt test is a concept or field test for clear/visible, separately timed (three individual marks spaced out 3-5 seconds apart) marking set-ups and precision blind retrieves. Field Trials are a different game, they don't pretend to be something they are not. But the OP was in regards to Hunt Tests. How is it that some are disagreeing on honoring & obedience as a fault for a hunt test while others are discounting a working dog in a down position. OBEDIENCE is and should be the first thing... an absolute must thing that a hunting dog possessives. True hunting work can't be effectively done without it! Why do people (judges and participants) in the hunt test world (with the exception of the Grand) place such a low priority on obedience. The OP is not an infraction on honoring, but lack of trainability/obedience. Lying down, (while working and honoring) as long as the dog can see the marks is something that a master level dog should be able to and be required to do. Talking to your dog in a "quiet, controlled voice" that does not interfere with the "hunting scenario" should be and is allowed. And further, a dog that can't walk to and from the truck without being constrained, doesn't have enough obedience to be in the blind with 6 men and guns.
    Matt Rodriguez

    "The will to win is nothing without the will to prepare."

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