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Thread: The income distribution - is this reverse socialism?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sick lids View Post
    Hard to tell where you stand here. In every job setting there is always 1 who works harder, longer, or smarter than the rest. By that simple fact they should make more, be it a group of 10 or 100 or 1 billion, just the way it is and should be. Every one should try to be the #1 and not the rest.

    Sometimes money begets money, unfortunately evolution only selects for successful reproduction, not commons sense or the ability to make and keep wealth. If people that are in the upper income brackets continue to have fewer and fewer children than the rest of the population you could extrapolate that that the divide will naturally continue to grow. I do not see reverse socialism at work here, in fact quite the opposite.

    The problem with waiting for the so called job creators to create jobs is where are their incentives to do so. They will only create jobs for the opportunities to make more money for themselves, and then be criticized for doing so. The masses need to learn how to create their OWN jobs, not look up and say give me.
    It amazes me how many in this country have become anti-business and pro big government, especially in the heavy unionized states. The government does not create wealth, they take it. The entitlement mentality all the way from welfare recipients to the union mentality will be our downfall. The time to eliminate the IRS is long overdue for that is the vehicle that allows politicians to buy votes from stealing from the job creators. End the IRS and support...
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  2. #12
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb504079 View Post
    I'll shed light on part of the answer no one has mentioned yet. And it's the workforce participation rates, coupled with high unemployment rates. If the same number of people were counted in the workforce participation rate as they were in 2008, the unemployment rate would be above 15% today. But take a look at the demographics among young people. They aren't working. What we are about to witness, and really are beginning to witness already, is the product of extreme liberal indoctrination among out public education system. From Pre-K to College, kids have been conditioned to think a certain way. Progressive ideology has absolutely dominated academia for the past 30 years, and now we are beginning to bear the fruit of it.

    Youth unemployment is sky high. Kids are waiting to get married. 45% of teens over the age of 16 DO NOT have a driver's license and rely on a parent to drive them places. Kids are living at home longer with their parents. Young adults are waiting longer to start families. This is the product of something isn't it???? Of course it is.

    Progressive liberalism is killing this country. When people do not begin working hard when they are young, chances are, they aren't increasing their wealth like the hard working wealthy people in this country. The sense of entitlement has replaced American work ethic, especially in Americans from Generation X and younger. If you are under the age of 35, you are in this catagory. Kids today weren't raised believing in the same America the Baby Boomers were. They weren't raised with the same kind of work ethic either. They've been brought up within the progressive liberal academic institutions....aka...public schools and universities. They're brainwashed, and by and large, they're lazy.

    Step back and view your masterpiece liberals, because this is what it looks like. High unemployment, massive government programs, massive debts, fewer jobs, and just general malcontent.
    I call BS on this.( underlined passages) Work ethic starts at home, not school. Kids, given everthing they ask for, have no idea what earning it means. Full blame on the parents on this one. They created their childrens entitlement mentality. And include the parents insistence on all inclusive sports teams. Everyone has to play or it isn't fair. Life isn't fair, deal with it. Not accepting responsbility for ones failures is another trait learned at home.This spans all politcal stripes and ethnic backrounds.

    If parents don't teach the meaning of hard work, responsibility and value of a dollar, look in the mirror if you want someone to blame.
    Last edited by Golddogs; 09-12-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golddogs View Post
    I call BS on this.( underlined passages) Work ethic starts at home, not school. Kids, given everthing they ask for, have no idea what earning it means. Full blame on the parents on this one. They created their childrens entitlement mentality. And include the parents insistence on all inclusive sports teams. Everyone has to play or it isn't fair. Life isn't fair, deal with it. Not accepting responsbility for ones failures is another trait learned at home.This spans all politcal stripes and ethnic backrounds.

    If parents don't teach the meaning of hard work, responsibility and value of a dollar, look in the mirror if you want someone to blame.
    You got that right. I have two hard working white kids at Kickapoo Ranch the rest are hispanic and have parents that came here from Mexico that have worked hard and showed there kids how to work hard. These kids put in 30 hours a week here and then are honor students and the high school.

    Thank God somebody is trying and not expectiong it to be given to them or we will soon be a country of losers. I think they need to tax those rich folks folks and pay for these poor Mexican kids to go to college.

  4. #14
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Once upon a time this country had a hand full of haves and the rest have nots that worked hard to make the few richer. Keep there options minimal and these few can keep exploiting the opportunity. Public education, credit opportunities and anti-trust laws moved us out of the Robber Barron era. I don't think I would have like that era unless I was one of them. Every post except Golddogs wants us back there. Obviously you really have not thought this through. Makes for good political rhetoric...but that's it.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    Once upon a time this country had a hand full of haves and the rest have nots that worked hard to make the few richer. Keep there options minimal and these few can keep exploiting the opportunity. Public education, credit opportunities and anti-trust laws moved us out of the Robber Barron era. I don't think I would have like that era unless I was one of them. Every post except Golddogs wants us back there. Obviously you really have not thought this through. Makes for good political rhetoric...but that's it.
    Wouldn't "giving" college to any poorer kid, be counter to Golddogs' premise that one must learn to "earn" things, not expect them to be "given"?

    FWIW, I would agree with Golddogs ... parents tend to want to make life better/easier for their children, but that is not always what will be the best for the kids over the longer haul.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    Once upon a time this country had a hand full of haves and the rest have nots that worked hard to make the few richer. Keep there options minimal and these few can keep exploiting the opportunity. Public education, credit opportunities and anti-trust laws moved us out of the Robber Barron era. I don't think I would have like that era unless I was one of them. Every post except Golddogs wants us back there. Obviously you really have not thought this through. Makes for good political rhetoric...but that's it.
    The Robber Barrons of today are our politicians that waste the people's labor on programs that don't work! Look at LBJ's Great Society; all it did was finance more poverty thus growing the poverty class. Money taken from the tax payer, spent on feelgood projects that only made the problem bigger.

    Reading blogs of the recent Labor ruling in Indiana and also from the bankrupt Detroit, there is a hostility for the people that put bread on their table. An attitude that will kill any real wealth left in the country!

    Life is not fair and the government can't make it so. If you want to make something of your life, work for it and earn it. Don't ask me to subsidize anyone's poor choices or pay for their damn Health Care. Heatlh Care in this country was just fine before the the days of PPOs and HMO's. Two systems that were bought and paid for by Lobbyist.
    The Libertarian Party believes that all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. A call for the repeal of the income tax, abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes. LP.org

  7. #17
    Senior Member sick lids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    . I think they need to tax those rich folks folks and pay for these poor Mexican kids to go to college.
    I do not think there is a law stopping you from paying for them to go to college! Why make a law saying I might have to do what you are not willing to do your self?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    I think they need to tax those rich folks folks and pay for these poor Mexican kids to go to college.
    In our family everyone paid for their own college - amazing what it teaches one about self reliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    It amazes me how many in this country have become anti-business and pro big government, especially in the heavy unionized states. The government does not create wealth, they take it. The entitlement mentality all the way from welfare recipients to the union mentality will be our downfall. The time to eliminate the IRS is long overdue for that is the vehicle that allows politicians to buy votes from stealing from the job creators. End the IRS and support...
    As per usual you have it wrong - we have a sales (fair) tax in WA - more loophpoles than the income tax - a flat tax is the only way to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Do you have any suggestions to combat this?
    I'm really awaiting your answer - what could have been a good thread with meaningful discussion needs to be refocused!!!!!!!
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Do you have any suggestions to combat this?
    Well, at least your reply seems to acknowledge that there may be a problem. I guess I would ask you, what policies have changed over the past 30 years which have created this situation? That would be a place to start, wouldn't it? Reversing the policies that have created this redistribution of wealth should be considered.

    The supply siders have ruled the day for most of this period. Effective federal tax rates are at a near all time low, yet the distribution of income and of wealth is similar to that of the roaring 20's right before the big crash, and the gap between rich and poor continues to grow. We have been told by the supply siders that the wealth will trickle down. We are told that a rising tide will lift all ships. I simply asked those of you that believe in this economic theory when all these other ships will be lifted? The job creators are doing great by every measure. Where are the jobs. Your theory says there there should be jobs. We had two large tax cuts under the previous administration, where are the jobs?

    Seems like we need to consider what needs to be done to increase the demand side of the equation. Instead, we seem to be pursuing a race to the bottom.

    You tell me,what policies are needed to increase demand? Maybe we just need to stay the course and it will work out?

  10. #20
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    You got that right. I have two hard working white kids at Kickapoo Ranch the rest are hispanic and have parents that came here from Mexico that have worked hard and showed there kids how to work hard. These kids put in 30 hours a week here and then are honor students and the high school.

    Thank God somebody is trying and not expectiong it to be given to them or we will soon be a country of losers. I think they need to tax those rich folks folks and pay for these poor Mexican kids to go to college.
    Be CAREFUL what you wish for...following this logic you will soon be one of those "rich folks" and pay for my Grandkids to go to school. Free market is the only way we can turn this around!

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