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Thread: The income distribution - is this reverse socialism?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Well, at least your reply seems to acknowledge that there may be a problem. I guess I would ask you, what policies have changed over the past 30 years which have created this situation? That would be a place to start, wouldn't it? Reversing the policies that have created this redistribution of wealth should be considered.

    The supply siders have ruled the day for most of this period. Effective federal tax rates are at a near all time low, yet the distribution of income and of wealth is similar to that of the roaring 20's right before the big crash, and the gap between rich and poor continues to grow. We have been told by the supply siders that the wealth will trickle down. We are told that a rising tide will lift all ships. I simply asked those of you that believe in this economic theory when all these other ships will be lifted? The job creators are doing great by every measure. Where are the jobs. Your theory says there there should be jobs. We had two large tax cuts under the previous administration, where are the jobs?

    Seems like we need to consider what needs to be done to increase the demand side of the equation. Instead, we seem to be pursuing a race to the bottom.

    You tell me,what policies are needed to increase demand? Maybe we just need to stay the course and it will work out?
    It would be an exercise in frustration to even begin to make a socialist of your ilk, Henry, to even understand the "free" market, let alone the trickle-down philosophy. Only the ignorant are into your form of class envy.

    In a free society, the people are given many opportunities to succeed. But there will always be a 'something-for-nothing' crowd that will have their hands out, because in their view they are 'owed' for some strange reason. Their hand-outs are a form of a right as they have been told by the socialists/Democrats for the time frame you are looking at. Their parents can't teach them either because they were brain-washed in that belief as well.

    Without recognizing a free society demands responsibility of the individual to take care of themselves, and NOT rely on big government for every scrap of existance, the nation will continue to slide into Marxism/communism, much like the Obamaites are actively changing daily.

    It's not difficult to explain HOW those numbers occurred, Henry. Your precious Democrat-led oligarchy providing all that stimulus and money printing has been taken advantage of by those on Wall Street, that understand how to fleece the ignorant. If you need to point the finger of blame, handing out low-interest lucre to those that know what to do with it, might be your answer.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Well, at least your reply seems to acknowledge that there may be a problem. I guess I would ask you, what policies have changed over the past 30 years which have created this situation? That would be a place to start, wouldn't it? Reversing the policies that have created this redistribution of wealth should be considered.

    The supply siders have ruled the day for most of this period. Effective federal tax rates are at a near all time low, yet the distribution of income and of wealth is similar to that of the roaring 20's ?
    I've probably seen a lot more than most here, having grown up during the depression in SD. For some reason I was usually the person in charge of, at the least, my little area. As a Foreman with 15 shift bosses & 400 miners (all of whose names I knew) I saw the work ethic of 50 years ago & swore I would never have a business that was reliant on labor to any extent. If I saw that 50 years ago, & I'm not the only person looking at that, you know others are looking the same direction, hence the big push to robotics. Smarter machines need better trained people which leaves those who failed to try out in the cold.

    There is no doubt tax policy toward offshoring helped that trend, but as far as taxes on the working man I think they could go lower . I do have an issue with the tax treatment given those who are vultures on the system, but believe they also create good by reinvigorating businesses that have gotten complacent. I believe that outfits like Bain Capital are worthy, they just need to not get a tax break unavailable to the common folk. & Bain is small potatoes compared to many in the vulture field, pioneered by Max Heine of Mutual Shares many years ago. I think to have a set figure on inheritance is wrong, they should pay capital gains on the gain like all do.

    The Great Society was a HUGE mistake, but they create jobs for Democrats administering the program & doing well. We buy local or American as a preference, shop the local farmers market, use local tradesmen as long as they do the job. We are not high livers, that the Capital Gains doesn't kick in until you exit the 15% bracket is perfect for us, it's nice to keep that reward that you took a risk for.

    3 of our 4 sons are self employed, the overregulation from the undertalented that they go through in their businesses makes one wonder why they do it. As a citizen I see what some arrogant SOB with rules to back them think they can do. Not everyone is as aggeressive as I am so they comply with things they do not need to.

    This is a little to complicated for a forum - I am not happy with the inability of any of our leaders to create something meaningful, both parties. It's as if they get a cause that is not going to be solved, but talk it to death as long as the donations roll in.

    I like pot stirrers & will encourage them with donations, when they go corporate the donations stop. I don't know if you read Mother Jones or the New Yorker, I'm a subscriber & find on occasion their articles thought provoking, but they will go stretches where there is no content. Not all reporters are qualified to report . At the reduced rate it make for good reading. I do think there could be a greater requirement for assimilation prior to citizenship. I've solved nothing with this post, but you can see the complication behind your question, there is no one size fits all solution.

    The greatest problem is the large cadre of folks who have no skills to participate in the working world, that does not get solved with a minimum wage.
    Last edited by Marvin S; 09-13-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Be CAREFUL what you wish for...following this logic you will soon be one of those "rich folks" and pay for my Grandkids to go to school. Free market is the only way we can turn this around!
    Umm. It depends on your definition of rich folks. I know menmon has at least 2 or 3 field trial dogs in training. I have 3.

    It isn't exactly a hobby for poor folks... Maybe future poor folks!

    I doubt that menmon is calling for anything that he isn't willing to belly up to the bar on.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  4. #24
    Senior Member GaryJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    I've probably seen a lot more than most here, having grown up during the depression in SD. For some reason I was usually the person in charge of, at the least, my little area. As a Foreman with 15 shift bosses & 400 miners (all of whose names I knew) I saw the work ethic of 50 years ago & swore I would never have a business that was reliant on labor to any extent. If I saw that 50 years ago, & I'm not the only person looking at that, you know others are looking the same direction, hence the big push to robotics. Smarter machines need better trained people which leaves those who failed to try out in the cold.
    I was working in a paper mill in 1975 and saw what you saw. There was also a Ford plant, a steel mill, and a the Norton Abrasives HQ and plant in the area. I remember when Ford had what everyone referred to as their FIRST layoff. Guys I worked with who had relatives at the Ford plant seemed to change over night. They would say things like "why should I bust my $ss for this company when this company will lay me off just like they did to my ...." or "if the company doesn't care about me why should I care about the company" Many to all new hires came in with the same attitude like someone owed them a job and a living. Talking to friends that worked in the other plants had similar stories.

    Gov't programs have enabled people to do the minimum, not necessarily their best or worse, but the minimum required to get by.

    Just wanted you to know you weren't the only who saw the attitude change.
    Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

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  5. #25
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    "The poor you will always have amoung you......" - Jesus Christ, Matthew 26:11
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  6. #26
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    You got that right. I have two hard working white kids at Kickapoo Ranch the rest are hispanic and have parents that came here from Mexico that have worked hard and showed there kids how to work hard. These kids put in 30 hours a week here and then are honor students and the high school.

    Thank God somebody is trying and not expectiong it to be given to them or we will soon be a country of losers. I think they need to tax those rich folks folks and pay for these poor Mexican kids to go to college.
    Great! I'll send you my student loan loan info so you can start paying it for me. Heck, how about you pay half and Ill pay the rest? And there are already programs that will help ANYONE (not just Mexicans) that needs it and wants to go the college.

  7. #27
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    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    You got that right. I have two hard working white kids at Kickapoo Ranch the rest are hispanic and have parents that came here from Mexico that have worked hard and showed there kids how to work hard. These kids put in 30 hours a week here and then are honor students and the high school.

    Thank God somebody is trying and not expectiong it to be given to them or we will soon be a country of losers. I think they need to tax those rich folks folks and pay for these poor Mexican kids to go to college.
    If they jumped the border they must be tossed today end of story!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  9. #29
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    Once upon a time this country had a hand full of haves and the rest have nots that worked hard to make the few richer. Keep there options minimal and these few can keep exploiting the opportunity. Public education, credit opportunities and anti-trust laws moved us out of the Robber Barron era. I don't think I would have like that era unless I was one of them. Every post except Golddogs wants us back there. Obviously you really have not thought this through. Makes for good political rhetoric...but that's it.
    Many of us believe that hard work pays off and are pissed that our hard earned money is taken from us by the gov't and given to those that do not work hard.
    Just look at the stupidly low SAT scores some people get to go to collwge where they do not belong on the money the feds stole from me.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  10. #30
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    As usual....my point went over many of your heads. Let me explain further.

    The point is that these young first generation Mexicans have work ethic and have taken advantage of our public school system and will grasp the opportunity of higher education and become productive US citizens. Their parents came over illegally seeking opportunity and bestowed that in their kids.

    See here we blame the public education system for our kids shortcomings, when we have raised a bunch of entitled brats. However, when someone is smart enough to embrace it, good things happen for them. Obviously my tax dollars are used for foolish things, but educating someone that wants to learn is not foolish and benefits me as a member of society, whether they stay here and work or go back to their home country.

    You guys are to shortsided in your thought. Educating folks makes the world better.

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