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Thread: The income distribution - is this reverse socialism?

  1. #131
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    I would love to see you get thru Pre-Med and Dental school without incurring debt today.....or even 10 years ago,for that matter.

    I put myself thru a 4 year State university 1970-1975 working part time jobs during the school year and working a full time job plus a part time job in the summers. That simply can't be done today, even ata State university, which is the least expensive way to go. You need to stop living in the past, Cary.

    Sometimes the job market throws you a curve. That's how I ended up with a career as a machinist for 23 years and more recently as a designer for the last 17. I have no regrets. It's been interesting and challenging and I have enjoyed good wages and benefits. But it isn't what I went to school for. So you can see that this is not a new phenomenon; It happened to me in 1975.-Paul
    I just pulled up the CT state U dh went to. Shocked to find a required $692 per semester insuarance
    fee! That is almost $1400 per year to feed OBAMCARE beast! What the hell!
    Tution isn't that bad but required unexplained fees are more than tuition. NO explanation of what the fees are.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  2. #132
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    I would love to see you get thru Pre-Med and Dental school without incurring debt today.....or even 10 years ago,for that matter.

    I put myself thru a 4 year State university 1970-1975 working part time jobs during the school year and working a full time job plus a part time job in the summers. That simply can't be done today, even ata State university, which is the least expensive way to go. You need to stop living in the past, Cary.

    Sometimes the job market throws you a curve. That's how I ended up with a career as a machinist for 23 years and more recently as a designer for the last 17. I have no regrets. It's been interesting and challenging and I have enjoyed good wages and benefits. But it isn't what I went to school for. So you can see that this is not a new phenomenon; It happened to me in 1975.-Paul
    I just pulled up the CT state U dh went to. Shocked to find a required $692 per semester insuarance
    fee! That is almost $1400 per year to feed OBAMCARE beast! What the hell!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  3. #133
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    [QUOTE=caryalsobrook;1166597]My son went to college about 10 years ago. MAXIMUM TUITION of any semester was $2,300. Total cost of books, fees, tuition was about $9,000. Since the legalization of the lottery, of which all income derived, goes to education, students (these are general numbers since it has been a while since I looked the up), with a "C" average or above and a score of 19( not sure but no more than an average score), receives a scolarship at least equal to the tuition, books and fees of a state university.

    Cary, are you talking about all high school seniors in Tennessee that meet those criterion are eligible at all state schools in Tennessee? if I understand correctly, that is an incredible deal for Tennessee residents! In my 20 years as a high school principal, I have never heard of such a great opportunity, at least not in the state of Ohio. My daughter goes to an Ohio state school, with an annual cost of about $19,300 including tuition, room, and board. Books, misc. costs are not included. This cost is very representative of Ohio state schools. While there are numerous competitive scholarships/grants that be applied for, there is nothing on the level of what you have described. Ohio also has the lottery system where profits are (supposedly) shared amongst all of the public K-12 school systems in the state. However, surplus money over the last couple of years has been diverted from the schools to a rainy day fund that was established by the Governor. The lottery in Ohio makes up about 5% of the State Education budget. It appears where Ohio is trying to put money towards k-12 education, Tennessee is putting their money towards getting students college educated. Again, if I read correctly, this is a great idea! Maybe I should have moved to Tennessee from North Carolina instead of back to Ohio!

  4. #134
    Senior Member Brad Turner's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mikegillam;1166694]
    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    My son went to college about 10 years ago. MAXIMUM TUITION of any semester was $2,300. Total cost of books, fees, tuition was about $9,000. Since the legalization of the lottery, of which all income derived, goes to education, students (these are general numbers since it has been a while since I looked the up), with a "C" average or above and a score of 19( not sure but no more than an average score), receives a scolarship at least equal to the tuition, books and fees of a state university.

    Cary, are you talking about all high school seniors in Tennessee that meet those criterion are eligible at all state schools in Tennessee? if I understand correctly, that is an incredible deal for Tennessee residents! In my 20 years as a high school principal, I have never heard of such a great opportunity, at least not in the state of Ohio. My daughter goes to an Ohio state school, with an annual cost of about $19,300 including tuition, room, and board. Books, misc. costs are not included. This cost is very representative of Ohio state schools. While there are numerous competitive scholarships/grants that be applied for, there is nothing on the level of what you have described. Ohio also has the lottery system where profits are (supposedly) shared amongst all of the public K-12 school systems in the state. However, surplus money over the last couple of years has been diverted from the schools to a rainy day fund that was established by the Governor. The lottery in Ohio makes up about 5% of the State Education budget. It appears where Ohio is trying to put money towards k-12 education, Tennessee is putting their money towards getting students college educated. Again, if I read correctly, this is a great idea! Maybe I should have moved to Tennessee from North Carolina instead of back to Ohio!
    from TN.gov:TENNESSEE HOPE SCHOLARSHIP (Application)

    Students must meet the following requirements:

    Entering freshmen must have a minimum of a 21 ACT (980 SAT), exclusive of the essay and optional subject area battery tests OR
    Overall weighted* minimum 3.0 grade point average (GPA)
    Home School graduates – minimum 21 ACT (980 SAT), exclusive of the essay and optional subject area battery tests
    GED Applicants – minimum 525 and 21 ACT (980 SAT), exclusive of the essay and optional subject area battery tests
    If a student ceases to be eligible for HOPE, except for GAMS and HOPE Access Grant, the student may regain HOPE, one-time only.
    ACT/SAT exams must be taken prior to the first day of college enrollment.
    For students who first received the HOPE Scholarship prior to fall 2009

    Award amount – Up to $4,000 for four-year institutions or a two-year eligible postsecondary institution that offers on-campus housing. Up to $2,000 for two-year eligible postsecondary institutions

    For students who first received the HOPE Scholarship in fall 2009 and thereafter

    Award amount – Up to $6,000 per year at an eligible four-year postsecondary institution or a two-year eligible postsecondary institution that offers on-campus housing. Up to $3,000 per year at an eligible two-year postsecondary institution. The award is divided equally between fall, spring and summer semesters. Awards to part-time enrolled students are prorated.

    *Weighted grade point average means a grade point average on a 4.0 scale calculated with additional internal quality points awarded for advanced placement, honors or other similar courses according to the Uniform Grading Policy adopted by the State Board of Education.
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  5. #135
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    [QUOTE=Brad Turner;1166697]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikegillam View Post
    from TN.gov:TENNESSEE HOPE SCHOLARSHIP (Application)

    Students must meet the following requirements:

    Entering freshmen must have a minimum of a 21 ACT (980 SAT), exclusive of the essay and optional subject area battery tests OR
    Overall weighted* minimum 3.0 grade point average (GPA)
    Home School graduates minimum 21 ACT (980 SAT), exclusive of the essay and optional subject area battery tests
    GED Applicants minimum 525 and 21 ACT (980 SAT), exclusive of the essay and optional subject area battery tests
    If a student ceases to be eligible for HOPE, except for GAMS and HOPE Access Grant, the student may regain HOPE, one-time only.
    ACT/SAT exams must be taken prior to the first day of college enrollment.
    For students who first received the HOPE Scholarship prior to fall 2009

    Award amount Up to $4,000 for four-year institutions or a two-year eligible postsecondary institution that offers on-campus housing. Up to $2,000 for two-year eligible postsecondary institutions

    For students who first received the HOPE Scholarship in fall 2009 and thereafter

    Award amount Up to $6,000 per year at an eligible four-year postsecondary institution or a two-year eligible postsecondary institution that offers on-campus housing. Up to $3,000 per year at an eligible two-year postsecondary institution. The award is divided equally between fall, spring and summer semesters. Awards to part-time enrolled students are prorated.

    *Weighted grade point average means a grade point average on a 4.0 scale calculated with additional internal quality points awarded for advanced placement, honors or other similar courses according to the Uniform Grading Policy adopted by the State Board of Education.
    I think it has been at least 10 years since the Hope Scholarship first passed. I do remember that there was a fight whether to require a 19 or 21 ACT score and the minimum GPA to qualify. There is also a minimum GPA that increases each year of college. I can not remember what the final result was initially. 19-21 ACT and 2.5-3.0 GPA. Personally, I think both requirements are too low. The failure rate as I understand it, is far too high. College should be for the high achievers, and not for the average achievers. Otherwise you dumbdown the value of the education or you have a high failure rate.

    Never will you hear me say that kids today are lazy. In fact in my opinion, they have it much HARDER than I did. Not only was I allowed to work, I was REQUIRED TO WORK. My parents saw to that. No minimum wage, child labor laws, or ruled governing internships. And thankfully, THANKFULLY I also had jobs where I had direct contact with the employer.

    It always frustrates me when kids are told they CAN'T do something. Desire, determination, persistence, and patience are important keys to success. When one tell a youth that they can't, then they probably won't.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikegillam View Post
    http://247wallst.com/jobs/2011/09/01...of-the-future/
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...oyers/2680249/

    I agree with the Civil Service employing a large number. I should have clarified private employer. However, as unbelievable as it may seem, finding a somewhat common number for civil service jobs is pretty difficult. Numbers have ranged from 1.7 million to 2.4 million. You'd think it might be a little easier to find. Cary, your path to your career is admirable and I certainly didn't mean to imply anything negative about anyone's background, only that education was the path towards a "better" life for most people. I also don't know that CEO would have to have their pay cut, to improve the worker's lot, although that is one way. Another possibility could be, according to a study researching Wal mart, increasing workers wages to $12.00/hour, which would increase most worker's annual salary from app. $3000-$6000. The cost to shoppers would be about .42/trip. I believe I have those figures correct. That would not decrease the CEO salary or profit margin, but would increase workers wages. Doesn't seem like a bad deal...keep your profits, CEO can keep their salary, and the workers gain. But then again, most I believe many business philosophies today would be increase the costs of items, don't improve workers salaries, and take more profits. Good for the business? Yes, it is good for the investors. Good for society? Nope, I don't think so.
    Actually, my background was excellent. Even though my father only made it to the 10th grade, he was not poorly educated. We had both the Encyclopedia Brittanica and the American Encyclopedia, both of which he had read cover to cover. His math was something to behold. It was self taught and probably broke all the rules, BUT IT WORKED!.. Took me quite a while to understand it, but it worked and was accurate. Where his level of formal education was evident was in his lack of ability to communicate.

    If one believes "my path to my career is admirable", then those that motivated me and honed those skills that are so important, are the ones that deserve the credit. If I said "I can't" or "it's not FAIR", I was quickly told that those answers were unacceptable. YOU CAN AND YOU MUST was always the proper response. Excuses were not tolerated. Unfortunately "I can't and it's not fair", are the accepted norm.

    PS. It never occurred to me that you said anything negative about my background. My parents were wonderful parents in many, many ways. If I were to criticize them, it would be that they were unable to temper the demand for excellence with support and praise. They both have passed now so I can tell this. When I informed them that I intended to resign from IBM, and go back to college to take the required courses for dental school, they were firmly against it. My Mother even took a bus to come and talk me out of it. Both were EXTREMELY unhappy when I resigned. When in dental school, not once did either ask me "if I was ok", to which my response would have been "I am fine". I must admit that this made me so bitter that when I graduated, I would not even call them and tell them when and where. My wife called them the morning of graduation and they did come. Time has tempered my bitterness and it did elevate my determination to a higher level. My parents' qualities far outweighed this one incident but it did affect me, hopefully for the better. Since my son was a very young age, I have told him time and time again. "Son, I will help you do anything. I may even help you if I think you are wrong. But the one thing I will not help you do, is I will not help you DO NOTHING." I think he has known that by heart since his first day in school.
    Last edited by caryalsobrook; 11-28-2013 at 06:46 PM.

  7. #137
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    In NC you can get taxpayer funded in state tuition at certain state Universities for SAT scores that are not much higher than just signing your name. THere is something wrong with this. I have no idea what the new translation with the edition of the essay section would be but under the old 1600 system you had better hit at least 950 for any CT state school ( that got you a college which are now Universites) and 1000 for UCONN main campus. YOU could not get UConn main campus without at least a 480 in each subject. Unfortunately even back then (1981) they had racial exceptions.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  8. #138
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    NObody should have kids if they can't provide for them period. I'm tired of being told I should pay for others choices end of story. There ar a few people who thru a tragic death may end up in this situtation. I have zero issue helping them, but not BABY MOMMA who will not keep her legs crossed.
    Any retail, fast food entry job is a starting place not ever meant to suport a family end of story. Those are jobs many of us had as part time in high school as a first job not a lifestyle. Even there if you work and apply yourself you can be promoted whether or not you are looking for it. At 17 working in a grocery store I went from cashier ( before scanners) to night/ weekend book keeper. They gave us tons of responsibility. Combo to the cash safe, approving check rights etc. Cashing checks you name it. Does someone who is barfing under the register deserve the same pay just beacuse they have a kid? They would not fire her do to the stupid union. DO they get more? Or does the repsonsible kid get paid more?
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    NObody should have kids if they can't provide for them period. I'm tired of being told I should pay for others choices end of story.
    If I'm not mistaken, you invited yourself to this party - those of us here because of being born here like it the way it is mostly.

    Not that I like this, but can only vote against those who enable it, which I do. Most folks in the situation you describe probably are unable to reason that what they are doing is wrong because:

    1) the folks making the money from it tell them it's OK.
    2) they came here & were never required to assimilate.
    3) they are the folks from the left side of the Bell Curve.

    Have you ever read the "Bell Curve"? Is what you describe any different than the corporate welfare that the government dishes to a select few?
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  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    NObody should have kids if they can't provide for them period. I'm tired of being told I should pay for others choices end of story. There ar a few people who thru a tragic death may end up in this situtation. I have zero issue helping them, but not BABY MOMMA who will not keep her legs crossed.
    Any retail, fast food entry job is a starting place not ever meant to suport a family end of story. Those are jobs many of us had as part time in high school as a first job not a lifestyle. Even there if you work and apply yourself you can be promoted whether or not you are looking for it. At 17 working in a grocery store I went from cashier ( before scanners) to night/ weekend book keeper. They gave us tons of responsibility. Combo to the cash safe, approving check rights etc. Cashing checks you name it. Does someone who is barfing under the register deserve the same pay just beacuse they have a kid? They would not fire her do to the stupid union. DO they get more? Or does the repsonsible kid get paid more?
    As Marvin S stated. You could always go back to where you came from. Most of us were born here. I have read several of your posts and there seems to be an issue with you and children. Do you not like children? Or are you so self centered that you don't want to sacrifice any of "your" money to spend on kids?

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