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Thread: Time for running the minor stakes ?

  1. #11
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    The minor stakes like the Qual oughta start at say, 7:30 before the open, run all the pro dogs then let the Pro's focus on the first stake of the Open. Have the open start at 9 or later. It's able to run into two days or three if needed. Seems like it would level out possible changing light and scenting conditions for the Open which would even the playing field. Obviously, in that arena the minor stakes hold less importance. I'm sure I'm no time bandit here but, makes sense in my mind although, in my short time running FT's I've never seen it done. Seems like from a time management standpoint it would cut down on a lot of run around. Sort of seems like it would allow them to run back over and start the third(or second) series while the open is moving on to the next series. Always seems like the Open and Q stakes run at the same pace and have the same time delays when the Q starts after the open which almost always will be taking longer and have a larger entry.

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    Time allocation for minor stakes is generally mechanics dependent. Entry size, cross handler entries with major stakes and the efficiency of the minor stakes judges are all factors. An efficient minor stake needs a strong marshal, major stake cooperation and judges that know time. Time allows judges to carry dogs in minor stake.
    Carrying a minor stake over to the next day IMHO is a greater burden/expense on the club and the handlers then it is on the judges. As I judge I have already had to plan for being there 3+ days. As a handler I prefer a 1 day minor stake.

    Tim
    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 09-13-2013 at 09:00 PM.
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Sounds like you want derbies to be like little league baseball. A trophy for all?

    What I don't want is to have a squiggle in the first and/or second to get a bunch dropped and a squiggle in the third and/or forth to get a placement.

    BTW Bill I have no problems with a boatload of Derby JAMs. And you ?

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Huh???.....
    You don't know Christopher Brian Bridges ?

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  5. #15
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    What I don't want is to have a squiggle in the first and/or second to get a bunch dropped and a squiggle in the third and/or forth to get a placement.

    BTW Bill I have no problems with a boatload of Derby JAMs. And you ?

    john
    No, I'll carry all of them if they are doing the work. But, if they can't do it, I don't want to watch them dog paddle around the pond just for the hell of it. I'm usually pretty generous in my callbacks. But no sympathy callbacks. That's insulting to the game and the contestants. By the way, I'll be up in your neck of the woods in a few weeks judging at LIRC... Come out and say hello if you can. Like to put a face to the name...
    Bill Davis

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    What I don't want is to have a squiggle in the first and/or second to get a bunch dropped and a squiggle in the third and/or forth to get a placement.

    BTW Bill I have no problems with a boatload of Derby JAMs. And you ?

    john
    John,

    Not looking for an argument or debate. When was the last time you ran a derby???

    Reason for my question is: I've ran 6 (maybe 7) this year (Canada and the States) In every trial, the judges pretty much called back every dog that picked up the birds.....

    No squilgee lines or penciled out dogs...

    More folks should try it and not worry about urban legend................

    Randy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    John,

    Not looking for an argument or debate. When was the last time you ran a derby???

    Reason for my question is: I've ran 6 (maybe 7) this year (Canada and the States) In every trial, the judges pretty much called back every dog that picked up the birds.....

    No squilgee lines or penciled out dogs...

    More folks should try it and not worry about urban legend................

    Randy
    I ran some last year.... about as many as you did.
    This thread is not about any of them, It is about what appears to have now become the NEW norm, the "One Day" minor stake....

    The squiggle comment to Bill was a hyperbole in response the LL trophy comment.

    The fact remains that the minor stakes judges often are given the least in the way of the available resources to work with; when faced with this situation they must do what is needed to get done...But when given the luxury of time, should we not use it as directed by the rules

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Carrion View Post
    Time allocation for minor stakes is generally mechanics dependent. Entry size, cross handler entries with major stakes and the efficiency of the minor stakes judges are all factors. An efficient minor stake needs a strong marshal, major stake cooperation and judges that know time. Time allows judges to carry dogs in minor stake.
    Carrying a minor stake over to the next day IMHO is a greater burden/expense on the club and the handlers then it is on the judges. As I judge I have already had to plan for being there 3+ days. As a handler I prefer a 1 day minor stake.

    Tim
    Yes, and as a club during these three days, every effort should be made that the necessary resources are made available to you .

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    The minor stakes like the Qual oughta start at say, 7:30 before the open, run all the pro dogs then let the Pro's focus on the first stake of the Open.
    Not a bad idea, but I am not sure how much it would help things. Around here, there are usually very few pros running the open and also the Q. A little more in derby but still not a ton of overlap. However, the pros tend to be a higher proportion of the folks in the last series so that is where we tend to run into trouble.

    As far as time, unless weather or something unusual happens we don't have a lot of trouble getting through the typical Q or Derby in one day and at least in the derby most dogs are back as long as they bring back the birds.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    Did any of these Derbies use more than one day ? Were the judges generous with their callbacks ? What percentage of the field got to see at least one set of watermarks?

    BTW. In keeping with 16. above, I prefer to have the second series of the Derby be watermarks. If for some reason this is imposible, I want to see all that have not committed a mandatory elimination violation, or picked up, back for the third series.

    john
    Back then we ran with our own set of judges and it started at 8am on Sat...not at the the end of the Q ...Which ran on Friday with the Open...It usually carried over to Sunday afternoon ...I believe the judges were generous with the call back ...There always seemed to be 10 or so dogs in the last series....4 places and most of the time 4-6 jams were given...If I had to guess on numbers it seems like there was usually a 20 -25 percent cut after each series....I don't remember much nit picking when it came to elimination ..Most of the time you knew when you were toast because of big hunts..Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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