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Thread: Poor Line/Blind Manners

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas D View Post
    I've always wondered what the pup learns in the truck.
    .
    L agree with you, Paul & Randy. Pup learns nothing in the truck. Additionally you are teaching that you want zero movement, so why move him 100 ft back to the truck. Taking back to the truck makes the lesson cloudier and also takes much more time. Teach the lesson in the moment. Throw bird if pup moves or makes noise have bird picked up and rethrown. Lather, rinse & repeat

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    I agree with Randy. I am not there to teach dogs to walk back to the truck.

    /Paul
    Could be a lot of walking for nothing. And the dog just starts up again when he comes to the line. Agree with Randy correct at the time it occurs. Taking him offline and back to the truck means you will deal with it later.JMO
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  3. #13
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    Thanks-

    Sounds like "no bird till he is quiet and settled in" is the answer. I also think in this particular situation, too many birds has been a problem. You know one bird after another without any pick-ups by the owner or another dog. I'll pass this along and I'll let you all know how things turn out. One question though, What is the correction for movement/vocalization at the time of the infraction?

    Thanks again,
    EG
    Last edited by Ohiodogman; 09-16-2013 at 07:54 AM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Marty Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiodogman View Post
    Thanks-

    Sounds like "no bird till he is quiet and settled in" is the answer. I also think in this particular situation, too many birds has been a problem. You know one bird after another without any pick-ups by the owner or another dog. I'll pass this along and I'll let you all know how things turn out. One question though, What is the correction for movement/vocalization at the time of the infraction?

    Thanks again,
    EG
    what command has the dog broken? SIT! so the denial of retrieve could be enough correction or you could add whatever means the trainer used to force/reinforce the sit command such as a heeling stick or nick with collar......i would suggest just denying retrieve consistnetly first.....my .02
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  5. #15
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    I also have a friend with a dog who excessively vocalizes at the line. Two things are certain: 1) it's a very frustrating and difficult problem to remedy 2) It needs to be dealt with early and consistently.

    To remedy: a quiet command must be taught, firmly grasping the dogs muzzle and giving the command quiet or hush. At the line, I firmly believe the correction must involve the dogs mouth, i.e. a stick or collar correction do no good in my opinion and neither does attrition or walking the dog off line. Why not? Because I've come to believe that some vocal dogs do not "realize" they are vocalizing and stick and collar corrections and walking a dog offline are ineffective because the dog does not understand what he/she is being corrected for.

    I encourage the handler to firmly grasp the dog's muzzle give the quiet command and give a physical correction to the area on the dog making the offense (i.e. the mouth/muzzle). Have the thrower pick up the bird and re-throw. Prior to calling for the bird, the handler can reinforce the quiet command verbally and physically as described above. Repeat as necessary. You can reinforce quiet in your home, when socializing, when taking walks, it's an easy command to teach. Once taught, it can be transferred to the line and a correction given at the point of the offense. This isn't guaranteed, but I think it's the direction to work in.

    Wishing your friend luck.

    Bobby

  6. #16
    Senior Member Donna Kerr's Avatar
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    I have a VERY vocal dog on the line. I have tried a lot of different things to try and control it including reducing the amount of excitement in the field by removing calls and shots. I am lucky that my boy is a good marker so, if he was quiet, he got his mark. This worked for a while and I slowly started working the calls and shots back in. If he made noise we went back to blind and did it again. He was doing well so I ran him in a test and everything I had worked towards completely disappeared and I had my old screaming machine back.

    I believe that Teacher504 is on the right track but saying “quiet” meant nothing to my dog. Grabbing his muzzle meant nothing to him. I was lucky enough to discuss this problem with a very successful Pro (he had also witness my dog in rare form at a test) who gave me the following advice:

    “With a dog like that, the “no noise on marks” will only work for a little while. As soon as you start running tests again it will probably show right back up. What we do with dogs like him is teach them to bark on command. He has no idea what that noise is coming out of him. If you teach to bark on command he will make the association and understand what he is doing. You can then teach him quiet, or no bark. He will then have understanding of what he is doing and you can then enforce a known command because he understands it. YOU turn it on and YOU turn it off!

    It made perfect sense to me…

    So I started teaching Scrubs to speak as soon as possible. It took a bit (funny that trying to get a vocal dog to speak can be that hard!), and a lot of treats, but he got it. Teaching quiet after that came very quickly. Got him really barking and then “quiet, treat/quiet, treat”. He is not perfect yet, and we also have other problems that we are trying to get through, but he is a lot better about it, especially in training.

    Hope this will help. It is a bi!ch of a problem to fix.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Randy Bohn's Avatar
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    The problem isn't hard to fix it takes lots of time, there's the real problem. Many pros and amateurs still beat the heck out of dogs for being noisy....takes less time but doesn't work with desired results.Most pros don't want them, takes to much time and after all day out training will they work the extra time later?? Probably not...time...high standards...time...high standards....Randy
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  8. #18
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    My gut tells me that dog was allow to do this and now it is a habit. As mention above, it will take some time to have dog unlearn, if possible.
    My penny worth...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohn View Post
    Don't take them back to the truck, address your issue there ...immediately at point of becoming a bad dog...Randy
    Agree 100%

    My pup was very vocal when she started, I heard the advice that the pup should go back to the truck, I'm sure this works for some but but did not make sense to me. I addressed the issue at the line and we've made tremendous progress, I'll still get an occasional excited yelp WHEN she's released but I can live with that.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiodogman View Post
    Thanks-

    Sounds like "no bird till he is quiet and settled in" is the answer. I also think in this particular situation, too many birds has been a problem. You know one bird after another without any pick-ups by the owner or another dog. I'll pass this along and I'll let you all know how things turn out. One question though, What is the correction for movement/vocalization at the time of the infraction?

    Thanks again,
    EG
    You can also drop the excitement level of the mark....going from Bang and throw to no noise and throw , to throwing bumpers just three feet in front of you. I would take this to the yard and do a steadiness drill on mowed grass and teach what the expectation is by reducing the excitement of the throw, getting compliance on your standard and then gradually increase the excitement level.
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