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Thread: new akc title

  1. #21
    Senior Member runnindawgz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTS View Post
    again........there is another game if "rankings" and "who is better" are important.............

    just saying.
    I agree, however, the reality is that not everyone has the land to train on (or the funds to travel to such, hire the pro, etc...) to prepare a dog to be truly competitive in the field trial world. On the other hand, to train to prepare a dog for a MH level title seams to be more “accessible/do-able” for ams and “small time” pros (yes, such as myself).

    I have said this time and time again: WHY DOESN’T the AKC simply make hunt test competitive? The judges are already there: JUDGING using a system of points.

    The standard to beat can remain the same: PASS or Fail based on points = to qualify or not to qualify. Orange ribbon or NO orange ribbon based on the standard being met or not.

    The dogs with the top points also receive placements (B,R,Y,W ribbons) and points toward a Master Championship Prefix title.

    The AKC does this very similarly in obedience: green ribbon = qualify/ enough quals you earn your title against the standard. Enough WINS/placements/points ... OTCH

    TIE SCORE ... a “run off” blind

    There I solved the problem.
    Last edited by runnindawgz; 09-22-2013 at 07:30 AM. Reason: clarified pass/fail via. orange ribbons
    Danielle R. Pellicci
    http://www.blackFootkennels.com
    Home of:
    SPICE, MH (11) CD RA NA (OA2) NAJ
    (FC AFC “Cori” X Malli QAA)
    FEATHER, MH QAA
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X “Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    PENNY, CD BN SH (RN2)
    (FC AFC CAFC “Copper” X “Faith” MH QAA)
    CAPPY
    (2XNAFC FC AFC “Ram” X “Cree”)
    HALO
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X“Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    TORCH
    (HRCH “Ticket” MH X“Penny” CD BN SH)
    &
    RIP: Rhumbline’s Guinness is Good, JH... Miss you every day "Big Man"

  2. #22
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runnindawgz View Post
    I agree, however, the reality is that not everyone has the land to train on (or the funds to travel to such, hire the pro, etc...) to prepare a dog to be truly competitive in the field trial world. On the other hand, to train to prepare a dog for a MH level title seams to be more “accessible/do-able” for ams and “small time” pros (yes, such as myself).

    I have said this time and time again: WHY DOESN’T the AKC simply make hunt test competitive? The judges are already there: JUDGING using a system of points.

    The standard to beat can remain the same: PASS or Fail based on points = to qualify or not to qualify. Orange ribbon on none.

    The dogs with the top points also receive placements (B,R,Y,W ribbons) and points toward a Master Championship Prefix title.

    The AKC does this very similarly in obedience: green ribbon = qualify/ enough quals you earn your title against the standard. Enough WINS/placements/points ... OTCH

    TIE SCORE ... a “run off” blind

    There I solved the problem.
    Where's that darn "Like" button.
    --Greta Ode
    willing slave to the whims of
    Kerrybrooks Magical Atticus MH
    Coastalight Kiowa Ravenhawk MH

  3. #23
    Super Moderator Vicky Trainor's Avatar
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    The day that AKC makes hunt tests competitive will be the last day that I will be an AKC Hunt Test Judge.

    I have a strong belief in the original purpose of AKC Hunt Tests...to prove a retriever in the field with a STANDARD. Pass or fail.

    I have seen many changes over the last 25 years of running and judging AKC Hunt Tests and have abided by the guidelines and regulations set forth. But, making that game competitive will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
    Vicky
    RTF Moderator
    http://www.oakdaleretrievers.com/Remembrance.html "You'll Cry"
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Lady Duck Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicky Trainor View Post
    The day that AKC makes hunt tests competitive will be the last day that I will be an AKC Hunt Test Judge.

    I have a strong belief in the original purpose of AKC Hunt Tests...to prove a retriever in the field with a STANDARD. Pass or fail.

    I have seen many changes over the last 25 years of running and judging AKC Hunt Tests and have abided by the guidelines and regulations set forth. But, making that game competitive will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    You and me, both!

    Also I am not a fan of the additional titles for several reasons.

    Number 1 is a Master Hunter is a Master Hunter is a Master Hunter no matter how many passes it has.

    Number 2 we already are having to limit entries in Master Tests, but offering that "carrot" if additional titles dangling in front of a dog owner's face, we are going to see an even more top heavy load in our sport.

    Number 3 has to do with our ever shrinking judges pool. Why should a master judge who has a good dog accept judging assignments when he could be running all those tests and scoring ever increasing titles?
    Last edited by Lady Duck Hunter; 09-23-2013 at 06:44 AM.
    When it stops being fun, I will find something else to do with my time and money.

    The Lady

  5. #25
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicky Trainor View Post
    The day that AKC makes hunt tests competitive will be the last day that I will be an AKC Hunt Test Judge.

    I have a strong belief in the original purpose of AKC Hunt Tests...to prove a retriever in the field with a STANDARD. Pass or fail.

    I have seen many changes over the last 25 years of running and judging AKC Hunt Tests and have abided by the guidelines and regulations set forth. But, making that game competitive will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
    I completely respect this.

    I don't respect the idea of pay-for-title titles when the "base" title is a pass/fail that shows consistency/reliability with a certain number of passes, and the "higher" title is just more of the same, piled higher and deeper.

    I think the OB model is a strong compromise for those who still like the hunt test game but need a little something more to push them and keep them involved.

    But--it is definitely a compromise.
    --Greta Ode
    willing slave to the whims of
    Kerrybrooks Magical Atticus MH
    Coastalight Kiowa Ravenhawk MH

  6. #26
    Senior Member jd6400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicky Trainor View Post
    The day that AKC makes hunt tests competitive will be the last day that I will be an AKC Hunt Test Judge.

    I have a strong belief in the original purpose of AKC Hunt Tests...to prove a retriever in the field with a STANDARD. Pass or fail.

    I have seen many changes over the last 25 years of running and judging AKC Hunt Tests and have abided by the guidelines and regulations set forth. But, making that game competitive will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
    Wheres the like button for that?
    Jim Weitzel
    Proud member of Ole Roy prostaff

  7. #27
    Senior Member runnindawgz's Avatar
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    Ok... I respect that. Not trying to be argumentative.

    Just saying that it would be possible both a pass fail as well as a “tell’” for which did the best at that pass fail. As they are talking of adding the number of passes to the prefix title its clear that there is some demand for people to want to know which dog is “better” at being a MH than others...

    Just thinking out loud.
    Danielle R. Pellicci
    http://www.blackFootkennels.com
    Home of:
    SPICE, MH (11) CD RA NA (OA2) NAJ
    (FC AFC “Cori” X Malli QAA)
    FEATHER, MH QAA
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X “Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    PENNY, CD BN SH (RN2)
    (FC AFC CAFC “Copper” X “Faith” MH QAA)
    CAPPY
    (2XNAFC FC AFC “Ram” X “Cree”)
    HALO
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X“Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    TORCH
    (HRCH “Ticket” MH X“Penny” CD BN SH)
    &
    RIP: Rhumbline’s Guinness is Good, JH... Miss you every day "Big Man"

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
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    Trials are for the folks that want to be competitive.
    Hunt Tests were set up as a pass/fail.
    Really additional titles????????????
    If I were looking at potential stud dogs. I am NOT looking at the number of times that a dog passed a Master test.
    I am looking at the whole picture.
    Sue
    Never confuse activity with success.

    "Ummmmmmm Isn't a word." Judge Judy

  9. #29
    Senior Member Lady Duck Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Kiefer View Post
    Trials are for the folks that want to be competitive.
    Hunt Tests were set up as a pass/fail.
    Really additional titles????????????
    If I were looking at potential stud dogs. I am NOT looking at the number of times that a dog passed a Master test.
    I am looking at the whole picture.
    Sue
    Yes! And you can't rely on the extra titles when choosing a litter either, because often times the younger females are the ones being bred. So the only reason I can see for the extra titles is for bragging and extra income. And heck without the extra titles, you can still continue to run your MH dog and display the ribbons, so that sorta dilutes the bragging factor.
    When it stops being fun, I will find something else to do with my time and money.

    The Lady

  10. #30
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
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    Just what would a person be exactly bragging about?
    The younger females being bred?/
    I'm assuming that you are referring to the Dam of the litter?
    If so then No that's NOT what I am talking about.
    I am looking at the entire pedigree , siblings ,health issues if any, temperament, size, sometimes color if it's a Lab.
    I wouldn't choose a stud because that boy has his Master especially in Labs. where I have a huge gene pool to choose from & tons of FC/AFC or qual. all-aged boys THAT list is endless.........
    Goldens maybe especially If I am looking at what is further back in the pedigree. Again the whole picture.
    Just my 2cents :/
    Have a great day.
    Sue
    Never confuse activity with success.

    "Ummmmmmm Isn't a word." Judge Judy

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