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new akc title

12K views 49 replies 28 participants last post by  Lonnie Spann 
#1 ·
just talked to buddy at the Master National said that there will be a new title. Maybe this was mentioned before but i dont recall seeing it. Master Hunters will now have the option after passing 12 titles to have MH-XX where XX would be how many master passes they have. it can be changed however many times till death (obviously only with passes)

the catch being you have to pay for each change. so they get you with entry fee, and then the pass fee:D


i told him they should change it to MH-XX/YY where XX would be how many passes and YY would be how many entries:p
 
#7 · (Edited)
Oy-Vey! Wouldn't that mean that someone would have to keep and accurate count, seems like the current reporting system; with the deletions and mix-ups aren't up to the task. ;) We will also need a complete point break-down, after all how would I know if my MH-22/25 MNH XL is better than your MH-8/10? ;)About what time do you think we can commit someone for spending more and more $$$ to keep proving they got a MH Level Dog? MH-500/500= 500x $75=$37,500 MH-1000/1000=$75,000... ;)
 
#12 ·
So separate from the fee aspect is this something you'd like to see? Would this lend itself to rankings? And would that be useful?
 
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#14 ·
Bingo!!!!! HT`s were designed to be able to pass a standard.Human nature still wants to see who has the best.
After taking 16 dogs to one of the first tests in the state of Ohio_On the way home dad and I had a discussion about the future of these.
He said in time everyone wants to know who did the best. Man was way ahead of everything. Jim
 
#13 ·
The fees aside, it does provide a ranking or indicator of the ability of the dog. The abilities of MH dogs vary greatly from barely capable to capable of becoming an FC. A total passes and pass rate would be nice to see for breeding purposes. FT are becoming increasingly out of reach, so this type of system could help identify breeding stock and further broaden the pool of available and desirable studs beyond those that achieve FC/AFC.
 
#16 ·
This seems pointless. What is the difference between MH-15 and MH-50. You are doing the same thing over and over, of course if they have passed it 12 times 13-50 should be no problem. To me it is kind of like the 500/1000 point club in HRC. All it shows it that you have been to a bunch of hunt tests and has little tell on the dog's abilities.
 
#17 ·
I disagree. Yes, it does show that you have been to a bunch of tests however, say your pooch HRCH's at 24 months...and you go to approximately 10 HRC tests a year. IF your dog runs for the next 8 years at a 100% pass rate you would have 2500 points. This means your dog is never injured, in heat, never breaks, nothing...perfect for 8 years...
My old dog reached the 1500 pt club at age 9...and had an entire year off 2 years before that due to health reasons. He had 60+ finished passes straight...without fail...so in my opinion the pt clubs show just how CONSISTENT a good finished retriever is.
 
#18 ·
What about the perfect retriever that's owner/handler did not get to as many test? That dog could have 10 passes but exceed in talent over a dog that has 40 passes. I agree it shows some consistency if a dog achieves a lot of MH passes but it doesn't necessarily mean he is the best of his class. Case in point, in the HRC dogs achieve points. Is a 1500 point HRCH better than a 500 point GRHRCH if both of the participate in the GRAND. Sorry, but I would say the GRHRCH dog trumps.
 
#19 ·
While I understand your point, again I disagree. A 1500 pt dog shows consistency over TIME...A GRHRCH just shows the dogs capability to pass a test, albeit it a very difficult one, 2x and achieve 20 finished passes. Its not an argument over whats better. Its that by the AKC showing the title as MH 77 then you know by all accounts this dog has shown the bare minimum requirement atleast 77 times...he is consistent...not better than the dog whose title reads MNH, but perhaps more consistent.
 
#20 ·
You won't see a lot of points on my dogs simply because my Joe, my husband, trains professionally and we have a new crop of dogs every year trying to get their titles. This year we have ran two HRC tests , one with a 12 dog limit and one with a 8 dog limit. None of our over 2 year old dogs ran that already had their HRCH ran because we had young dogs that needed their titles(SHR, HR, HRCH). But you can bet when they do run, they always show up 100%. So on the flip side, you will see us run them in the bigger tests like the GRAND. For a person who is researching a particular dog, I believe all factors must be taken into consideration. And what about amateurs who don't have the finances or the time off to run umpteen contests? Does that make his dog anymore less talented? What about those who acquire most of their points in HRC from upland tests?
 
#23 ·
The day that AKC makes hunt tests competitive will be the last day that I will be an AKC Hunt Test Judge.

I have a strong belief in the original purpose of AKC Hunt Tests...to prove a retriever in the field with a STANDARD. Pass or fail.

I have seen many changes over the last 25 years of running and judging AKC Hunt Tests and have abided by the guidelines and regulations set forth. But, making that game competitive will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
 
#24 · (Edited)
You and me, both!

Also I am not a fan of the additional titles for several reasons.

Number 1 is a Master Hunter is a Master Hunter is a Master Hunter no matter how many passes it has.

Number 2 we already are having to limit entries in Master Tests, but offering that "carrot" if additional titles dangling in front of a dog owner's face, we are going to see an even more top heavy load in our sport.

Number 3 has to do with our ever shrinking judges pool. Why should a master judge who has a good dog accept judging assignments when he could be running all those tests and scoring ever increasing titles?
 
#27 ·
Ok... I respect that. Not trying to be argumentative.

Just saying that it would be possible both a pass fail as well as a “tell’” for which did the best at that pass fail. As they are talking of adding the number of passes to the prefix title its clear that there is some demand for people to want to know which dog is “better” at being a MH than others...

Just thinking out loud.
 
#28 ·
Trials are for the folks that want to be competitive.
Hunt Tests were set up as a pass/fail.
Really additional titles????????????
If I were looking at potential stud dogs. I am NOT looking at the number of times that a dog passed a Master test. :(
I am looking at the whole picture.
Sue
 
#29 ·
Yes! And you can't rely on the extra titles when choosing a litter either, because often times the younger females are the ones being bred. So the only reason I can see for the extra titles is for bragging and extra income. And heck without the extra titles, you can still continue to run your MH dog and display the ribbons, so that sorta dilutes the bragging factor.
 
#30 ·
Just what would a person be exactly bragging about?
The younger females being bred?/
I'm assuming that you are referring to the Dam of the litter?
If so then No that's NOT what I am talking about.
I am looking at the entire pedigree , siblings ,health issues if any, temperament, size, sometimes color if it's a Lab.
I wouldn't choose a stud because that boy has his Master especially in Labs. where I have a huge gene pool to choose from & tons of FC/AFC or qual. all-aged boys THAT list is endless.........
Goldens maybe especially If I am looking at what is further back in the pedigree. Again the whole picture.
Just my 2cents :/
Have a great day.
Sue
 
#31 ·
Sue, I was agreeing with you.

I was disagreeing with those here who feel that the extra titles will be a factor in knowing how good a dog is, etc. and those who were saying that the extra titles would be helpful in picking a puppy.

I see no reason for these extra titles. Once you have an MH on your dog he/she has proven that he/she can do the work.
 
#32 ·
I feel if the AKC and the retriever world was about improving the breeds and not about the money. They wouldn't come up with these new titles. They would say after your dog has failed a given number of tests and has not titled, that dog would be unable to run hunt tests at that level, or the dog would only be able to run under a limited reg. and unbreedable. I see way to many dogs that are given master titles after failing several HT's at that level. I feel we are starting to promote dogs with bad training habbits and poor marking ablitity.
 
#33 ·
Where does it end and where do these committees come up with this stuff?
 
#35 · (Edited)
I've decided to look at this another way, I still think the changing a title every MH pass, to sort've put one dog above another in terms of one being better in skill is ludicrous. But I could get behind such if it were considered a life-time achievement type of reward, akin to those of other venues. Other venues get recognized for 500pt, 1000pt, etc. which-by not every test and point is counted but a life-time of effort is recognized. I've noticed that the type of person who achieve such titles are usually a very dedicated owner-handler who just likes to run their dog. So if the AKC were to have recondition for say Silver 30, Gold 40 and Platinum 50 passes; That's something someone could aspire to for the life-time of the dog, and not something a instant title-gratification type person would see much benefit in.
 
#38 ·
No way! We need to make more numbers behind a master hunter dog than recognize the minimum achievement in a field trial. Lol
 
#40 ·
From what I've heard,... these new titles are to recognize dogs that qualify every year for the MN and don't travel because of various reasons(cost prohibitive, time off, etc). Having all those passes adds up to a pretty accomplished dog. Yes, the AKC does stand to profit by it but I think that these people that put pass after pass on their dogs year after year and don't get to go to the MN should at least have a chance to be recognized. Just my .02

BHB
 
#46 ·
From what I've heard,... these new titles are to recognize dogs that qualify every year for the MN and don't travel because of various reasons(cost prohibitive, time off, etc). Having all those passes adds up to a pretty accomplished dog. Yes, the AKC does stand to profit by it but I think that these people that put pass after pass on their dogs year after year and don't get to go to the MN should at least have a chance to be recognized. Just my .02

BHB
Havent read any of the posts but....I think, if those dogs are so accomplished they should be running field trials. Next thing you know you'll have a 4xMH being bred like an FC/AFC, and in essence watering down the breed....just my .02.
 
#41 ·
I agree that it is pointless. MHXX would show ONLY that said dog has passed X amount of Master tests. I am putting a MH on my male and once he gets it he will not be running any more Master tests. After I graduated high school I didn't return to take the exit exam every year thereafter.

HRC has the 500 point club, the 1000, the 1500, etc. I need a couple more passes to have 500 points on my male. I'm doing this ONLY because I have never owned a jacket that costs $5,000!

However, to each his own, some individuals just like travelling all over the country and running hunt tests.

Although not a participant, I do agree with the others that if someone wants real bragging rights there is a venue just for that.

Lonnie Spann
 
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