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View Poll Results: would you allow a first timer drawn as #1 dog to drop back

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  • yes 6 dogs

    20 19.23%
  • yes middle of the pack

    22 21.15%
  • no

    62 59.62%
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Thread: first time and first dog

  1. #51
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    I do not think most pros think it is a disadvantage to run first at a derby. As mentioned previously, there is less drag back early. There is not a lot of strategy in running a derby. You just line your pup up and let 'em rip.

    I have never heard anyone, client or gallery, complain that it was not ethical for a pro to run early. Their livelyhoods depend on success at what ever level they run.
    Thanks, Russ.

    I was thinking of it from a different point of view. The OP believes he will do better if he runs later. What if the advantage he gains, by getting special treatment, is great enough that he places? That placement might cost a dog on the pro's truck a ribbon.
    Renee P

  2. #52

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    Speaking from the perspective of a newbie and someone who has marshaled several trials now (all stakes except the open, multiple times) there are plenty of instances where dog #1 doesn't run first in the first series. Sometimes if the derby is on Friday, they will start the open an hour later and instruct all pros and people running the open and the derby both to show up at the derby first. The marshal is then instructed to run those dogs first. Same thing will happen if the derby is the same start time as the Am. Many times dog #1 will end up running as dog 7 or 8. However, this generally applies only in the first series. When the second series starts, you usually end up running in order with the dogs that are there and work everyone else in as they filter in. Many times, it pays to run earlier (no dragback as others have mentioned, cooler temperatures, better sun position, etc) Regardless, the marshal controls the running order at the trial itself, not the judges. Run your dog when your number is called and try not to give a marshal much grief. It is one of the more difficult jobs at a trial. I recently started shooting fliers and would rather do that any day. Good luck to you and your dog!
    God bless!- Jamee

    When you stop having fun, it's time to quit!!
    "If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either"- Author unknown

    My team:
    HR Dr. J's RxRated High Caliber JH "Kali"
    White Oak's Change of Plans "Bodee"
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  3. #53

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    i will add too, as a newbie volunteer to help out! A trial is a TON of work to put on and goes much more smoothly when people help. You're help will be much appreciated. It's a good way to get to know people too.
    God bless!- Jamee

    When you stop having fun, it's time to quit!!
    "If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either"- Author unknown

    My team:
    HR Dr. J's RxRated High Caliber JH "Kali"
    White Oak's Change of Plans "Bodee"
    #1 cheerleader: SJ's Gotta-Lot-A Go Lil "Jake"

    Gone but never forgotten:
    HR Stevie-Joe's Super "Star"- my heart dog, I love you baby
    October 24, 2001-January 6, 2013

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamee Strange View Post
    Speaking from the perspective of a newbie and someone who has marshaled several trials now (all stakes except the open, multiple times) there are plenty of instances where dog #1 doesn't run first in the first series. Sometimes if the derby is on Friday, they will start the open an hour later and instruct all pros and people running the open and the derby both to show up at the derby first. The marshal is then instructed to run those dogs first. Same thing will happen if the derby is the same start time as the Am. Many times dog #1 will end up running as dog 7 or 8. However, this generally applies only in the first series. When the second series starts, you usually end up running in order with the dogs that are there and work everyone else in as they filter in. Many times, it pays to run earlier (no dragback as others have mentioned, cooler temperatures, better sun position, etc) Regardless, the marshal controls the running order at the trial itself, not the judges. Run your dog when your number is called and try not to give a marshal much grief. It is one of the more difficult jobs at a trial. I recently started shooting fliers and would rather do that any day. Good luck to you and your dog!
    the derby starts at 10am and the am starts at 8 so i assume they started the derby late to allow all the pros to come over and run then get back in time for callbacks at open.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamee Strange View Post
    i will add too, as a newbie volunteer to help out! A trial is a TON of work to put on and goes much more smoothly when people help. You're help will be much appreciated. It's a good way to get to know people too.
    This is great advice! Not only do most clubs need and appreciate the help, but it's a great way for a newbie to learn. I marshalled several events before actually ever running my dog, and I learned a ton from just watching and listening. Also met a lot of people, who once they learned I was new, were there to offer a lot of hints, tips, advice and moral support!

  6. #56
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Run first, that way when you return home and everyone asks about the trial you can answer them honestly and say "I was in first place for a while".

    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

    Member of CAHRC and North AL HRC. I train with AND AM FRIENDS WITH: Fishduck, Laidback, Splash_Em, RF2, Drake2014, Claimsadj, Hooked on Quackers, RookieTrainer and Roseberry.

    HRCH Spann's Quacker Jack "Jack" 500 Pt. Club (New & IMPROVED jacket).

  7. #57
    Senior Member 3blackdogs's Avatar
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    This was just a passing point you made but it caught my eye:
    i'm also thinking about doubling his food friday night and not feeding saturday morning (5am when i leave for trial at 10)? or would that just not be smart? he seems to do his best work on an empty stomach


    I would NOT double his food the night before, especially if that is not part of your usual routine. I would stick with your normal feeding regime, perhaps modifying the morning feeding to be a little lighter on competitive days.

    To do a wholesale change of the dog's feeding schedule is going to create more stress if the dog isn't used to this.. Dogs thrive on routine. I would be extraordinarily careful about doubling any competitive labrador's foodshare at one time. Actually any lab, competing or not.

    You're already going to be stressed out, which I firmly believe a dog picks up on. Don't add to it by altering the normal way you do things "on game day".

    Good luck, interesting thread.
    ________________________
    Lydia

  8. #58
    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3blackdogs View Post
    This was just a passing point you made but it caught my eye:
    i'm also thinking about doubling his food friday night and not feeding saturday morning (5am when i leave for trial at 10)? or would that just not be smart? he seems to do his best work on an empty stomach


    I would NOT double his food the night before, especially if that is not part of your usual routine. I would stick with your normal feeding regime, perhaps modifying the morning feeding to be a little lighter on competitive days.

    To do a wholesale change of the dog's feeding schedule is going to create more stress if the dog isn't used to this.. Dogs thrive on routine. I would be extraordinarily careful about doubling any competitive labrador's foodshare at one time. Actually any lab, competing or not.

    You're already going to be stressed out, which I firmly believe a dog picks up on. Don't add to it by altering the normal way you do things "on game day".


    Good luck, interesting thread.
    I agree with this. Good point, Lydia..

    If I had the clip board, and the OP asked me to let him run later, I would ask for a volunteer to run first. Mostly, I won't get one. Doesn't hurt to ask, though..
    Likely, the OP will have to run first. Not bumping someone up with a later number. Unless they want to be bumped.
    Then, just run in order for the dogs that are there. Fit the pros in as they show up.

    One thing I have done recently. Put in premium that minor stakes are allowed to rotate.
    That way, at least the nervous noob won't have to run first, every series.
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

  9. #59
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cakaiser View Post
    I agree with this. Good point, Lydia..

    If I had the clip board, and the OP asked me to let him run later, I would ask for a volunteer to run first. Mostly, I won't get one. Doesn't hurt to ask, though..
    Likely, the OP will have to run first. Not bumping someone up with a later number. Unless they want to be bumped.
    Then, just run in order for the dogs that are there. Fit the pros in as they show up.

    One thing I have done recently. Put in premium that minor stakes are allowed to rotate.
    That way, at least the nervous noob won't have to run first, every series.
    If he were to run first (or at all) in every series of his first derby... He would be doing pretty darn good. Hope he does it!

    It's happened before. Have a good friend who twenty years ago upon winning the first derby he ever saw asked "what color ribbon do we get for that?!!!" That guy is now running a little choc female that is pretty well known.
    Bill Davis

  10. #60
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    If I had the clip board, and the OP asked me to let him run later, I would ask for a volunteer to run first.
    If You asked for volunteers to run first, and I had two dogs entered, lets say dog 4 and dog 29 ,would you let me run my 29 dog first?

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 09-25-2013 at 02:39 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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