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Thread: Brinksmanship

  1. #21
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    I personally don't like when congress holds the economy hostage. I wouldn't like it if Dems were in charge and I don't like if Republicans are in charge. I disapprove of how they are doing things. It is not supposed to be how they are supposed to be acting, it is embarrassing to me. If you are cool with it whatever.
    I think this is why Congress approval rating is so low ... bi-partisanly

    However, this, too, is part of the example that the POTUS would be setting. When he says he won't negotiate, and when he uses name-calling to ridicule those who disagree with him, and executive orders to ignore laws he doesn't like, it becomes a street fight. Yet nobody blames Obama for any of this, yet he is the one who has said he won't negotiate. He'll negotiate with Putin, Assad and Iran ... but he won't negotiate with his own Congress?

    We cannot continue to raise the debt without concern for the consequences. We'll end up like Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy. And who is there to bail out the US? There isn't any country that could do that.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Putin, Assad and Iran are easier to get along with 8 ). The negotiations for these laws are already over, happened when they passed them. Now it is time to cut the check. The R's are trying to get a little something, something for nothing. They are not offering to do anything other than what they are required to do in the first place. A government shutdown has a 250,000,000 price tag per day. Any concession on Obama's part will have such a huge political price tag that there is no way he would enter into a discussion. Since the R's are going to take the entire blame also there is politically no advantage to help them out either. This does fall squarely on the shoulders of Boehner for being a weak leader in the house. There has been a lot of disarray in the handling of this and other issues in the house. A lot of that has to do with the fractures in the Republican party. The R's really do need to split off at some point from the tea party.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  3. #23
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    This is what we get when your youth for two generations have not been taught Civics and American History. Top that with our society allowing the major networks and newspapers to be taken over by Liberals. Add to that the Liberal control of most major Social Networks and you have a propaganda machine that has not been seen since 1937 Germany. The House of Representatives is our last line of defense, backed up by a number of Radio networks and Fox News.....we are behind and the clock is running out of time.....prepare for the worst....prey for the best...take action at every opportunity!
    Last edited by swampcollielover; 09-30-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The negotiations for these laws are already over, happened when they passed them.
    This was NOT the case for Obamacare.

    I mentioned this before, but will repeat it once more:
    The House never got to vote on O-care! Reid used sleight of hand to strip the guts out of another appropriations bill that the House had passed. Then totally replaced the contents with Obamacare. That was the ONLY way they could get O-care passed. It was an outright usurpation of the Origination Clause of the Constitution.

    This was "legal" in theory, but a real bastardization of the process for a bill that would have such far-reaching effects on the country. O-care was put in place by just over 50 individuals ... who now want to make sure that the law does not apply to them!

    How many of those people would be in jail if the insider trading rules that apply to the private sector had also applied to members of Congress over the years? How many citizens could repeated "kite" checks with no funds available in their account, and not end up with a felony conviction? Yet, these are the same people who made O-care law, and once again exempted themselves from the laws of the land.

    Is there a way to impeach Harry Reid?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    These proceedings are bigger than Obamacare. it is still not an appropriate forum to address it either. More Appropriate would be any of the other 50 times they tried to repeal it. Which they could not pass either. This a lot more about one section of the government trying to control the rest. I really don't know what you are talking about in the house votes on the ACA, so I haven't commented on it. I have not heard any of the republican leaders talk about it in their media interviews, either way I consider it a non-issue. The law passed, everything after that is whining.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    prey for the best...take action at every opportunity!
    Freudian slip?
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    From American Spectator
    http://spectator.org/archives/2012/0...us-history-rec

    Sixth, the Senate had to pull other procedural rabbits from its hat in order to make up for not letting the House originate a revenue-raising bill and to make up for the loss of Massachusetts’ Senate seat to Scott Brown. Chief among these was taking an orphan House bill and stripping everything from the bill but the number, replacing the entire text with the text of Obamacare. Again, this is legal, but hardly an admirable way to force through a bill of this size and importance on a party-line vote.
    You are correct, Henlee, the Republicans are not talking about this ... because there is not a dang thing they can do about it at this point. Would it really do them any good to point this out in this discussion? Republicans should have been loudly outraged at the time this was done. The Ds relied on the old adage, "It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission."

    Like Hillary, they now would say, "What difference, at this point, does it make?" or another WH fall-back for Fast & Furious, "This is old news." Like you, many voters overlooked how this was all "managed" in the cloakroom.

    This article, BTW, also points out some other interesting circumstances surrounding the passage of the law. Not such a small one was Arlen Spector's change of party at about this time as well. Arlen must be McCain's role model?

    Then, eleventh, he had to fool enough pro-life Democrats (who had to be stupid enough or cynical enough to let themselves be “fooled”) into believing that an executive order from him could carry enough of the force of law to ensure that no public funds would be used for abortions, and that his administration would actually observe both the letter and the spirit of that order. (The final, official House tally was 219-212, but the de facto passage was by only one vote — several of the “aye” votes would not have switched in that direction at the last minute unless they had enough “cover” to say they weren’t the single vote that pushed it over the top.)
    Remember, the Ds also controlled the House when O-care was passed. You may remember "The Corn Husker Kickback" and the "Louisiana Purchase"? Whatever the outcome of O-care, there can be no "spinning" on the fact that the Ds "own" this law. Although, if it turns out badly, Obama will probably lay it at Reid's and Pelosi's doorstep ... Obama is always just a bystander.
    Fifth, Harry Reid had to play parliamentary hardball (and Mitch McConnell had to let him get away with it) in order to force the key vote on initial Senate passage before the Senate left for Christmas break of 2009 — whereas if senators had gone home for Christmas and heard first-hand the intensity of public opposition, not even the various Kickbacks and Purchases (and other special deals) would have sufficed to keep some of the senators on board for the one-vote victory.
    I might disagree with this being an unimportant issue when discussing fiscal issues. Think of the fiscal impact of Medicare. O-care will be bigger. O-care is already estimated to be 2X the initial cost estimates ... and it hasn't even really started yet.

    I think the House made an error in making so many votes for repeal ... as long as the Senate was controlled by Ds the House votes were just symbolic. Or maybe not. They continued to go on record in their opposition to the law, symbolically or not.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    In a press release Monday evening Senator Ted Cruz vowed to donate his salary to charity for each day Majority Leader Harry Reid forces the government to shut down.


    "Harry Reid should not force a government shutdown. I hope that Reid stops refusing to negotiate and works with the House to avoid a government shutdown, and, at the same time, prevent the enormous harms that Obamacare is inflicting on the American people.


    "If, however, Harry Reid forces a government shutdown, I intend to donate my salary to charity for each day the government is shut down. Elected leaders should not be treated better than the American people, which is precisely why hardworking Americans deserve the same Obamacare exception that President Obama has already granted Members of Congress."
    Finally, there is someone who keeps the pressure on Reid. Notice that he has used the phrase "...Harry Reid forces a government shutdown."
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

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