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Thread: Pattern Blind/Cold Blind TRANSITION

  1. #21
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    Yes my dog starts to bow at the 60-80 yrd range i whistle
    Sit and cast wish he wld hold it longer

  2. #22
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    I don't do pattern blinds. I've decided that my time is better spent on easyish multiple cold blinds. It always seemed like there was a transition to cold blinds whether they had had pattern blinds or not. Also, it seemed easier, less of a fight, to get them past shorter old blinds when sending for longer blinds.

    YMMV
    My vote as well. That is how I was trained. I find that less is more. KISS principle toward dog not me.

    Edit to post: I thought some more on this and decided to add a tidbit more. My dog already knows force, granted if I did what I was supposed to do. Instead, I don't want my dog to focus on force....I want my dog to focus on the bird that is out there that I showed him or her first hand....This is how I was trained by field trailers.
    Last edited by BJGatley; 09-28-2013 at 08:58 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member 25-ott-06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    You mean with a dog that has already transitioned to cold blinds? No, not really. There are better ways.

    Evan

    What better way or drill would you use for a dog that is starting to break down that is already transitioned to cold blinds?

  4. #24
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Your dog is breaking down because the dog is not confident. What is in it for the dog???? I noticed you are a Evan groupie from another site.....

  5. #25
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25-ott-06 View Post
    What better way or drill would you use for a dog that is starting to break down that is already transitioned to cold blinds?
    During force work, culminating in force to pile. the dog acquires compulsion; going from. Going to helps give the dog confidence, but not real momentum like going from does. A dog running a real blind (cold blind) is going from, since he has no idea where he's running to. That gives credence to why Howard and other trainers simply go directly to developing cold blinds. It's sound thinking.

    By blending the more encouraging aspects of pattern blinds (going to) with the compulsion training the dog gets during Basics you should be able to smoothly transition most dogs into cold blinds seamlessly. This applies to the question about a dog starting to break down. I just use one or more drills with a gradient concept, and run cold blinds. Drills that start with relatively short easy routes, increasing in length one blind to the next. Usually 6-8 blinds per drill, but that varies with the weather. BB blinds, Gradient blind drills, or even Tune Up drills work perfectly.

    Such a dog has already learned the basic aspects of lining up for and going on blinds during pattern blind work. I think a common part of why young dogs break down en route is that they've simply not been developed enough to have confidence and momentum on cold blinds. Staging distances is just a fair, sequential way of giving them the exposure they need.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
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  6. #26
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    During force work, culminating in force to pile. the dog acquires compulsion; going from. Going to helps give the dog confidence, but not real momentum like going from does. A dog running a real blind (cold blind) is going from, since he has no idea where he's running to. That gives credence to why Howard and other trainers simply go directly to developing cold blinds. It's sound thinking.

    By blending the more encouraging aspects of pattern blinds (going to) with the compulsion training the dog gets during Basics you should be able to smoothly transition most dogs into cold blinds seamlessly. This applies to the question about a dog starting to break down. I just use one or more drills with a gradient concept, and run cold blinds. Drills that start with relatively short easy routes, increasing in length one blind to the next. Usually 6-8 blinds per drill, but that varies with the weather. BB blinds, Gradient blind drills, or even Tune Up drills work perfectly.

    Such a dog has already learned the basic aspects of lining up for and going on blinds during pattern blind work. I think a common part of why young dogs break down en route is that they've simply not been developed enough to have confidence and momentum on cold blinds. Staging distances is just a fair, sequential way of giving them the exposure they need.

    Evan
    I agree with your last paragraph Evan. Kudos

  7. #27
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    Yes i am smartworks beliver, it sorta looks to me
    He is being more independant then confident, but am still
    A newbie however i will go back bb blinds and maybe some lining
    Drills thanks....

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    I don't do pattern blinds. I've decided that my time is better spent on easyish multiple cold blinds. It always seemed like there was a transition to cold blinds whether they had had pattern blinds or not. Also, it seemed easier, less of a fight, to get them past shorter old blinds when sending for longer blinds.

    YMMV
    Thank-you Howard.
    This makes sense.

    The dog is not really PUSHED past one leg, or a marker with no bumpers, or an old blind to get to the next pile in Pattern Blinds- it would have to be done sooner or later, on blinds, or old falls regardless of whether the dog ran them or not.
    Is that about right(?)
    Last edited by Swampbilly; 10-01-2013 at 06:46 AM.
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampbilly View Post
    Thank-you Howard.
    This makes sense.

    The dog is not really PUSHED past one leg, or a marker with no bumpers, or an old blind to get to the next pile in Pattern Blinds- it would have to be done sooner or later, on blinds, or old falls regardless of whether the dog ran them or not.
    Is that about right(?)
    Those are not functions of pattern blinds, or at least they shouldn't be. In times past PBs were used for all portions of blind teaching. Our methods evolved. PBs do important basic things during the teaching phase. What the trainer needs to do is to take advantage of their benefits, and know when to move on.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

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